RE: [xmca] Aspergers/ASD

["Deborah Rockstroh" <d_rockstroh@bigpond.com>]

Elizabeth, biological/genetic/neuroscientific arguments aside (which are way
out of my field, but more than likely quite critical to a full discussion of
this topic), I feel sure there are a minimum of two (academic) arguments
that can be framed from the cultural-historical perspective to support the
suggestion that social/cultural/historical conditions *might be*
contributing towards the *rise* of autistic spectrum disorders: 
1) the concept that development does not occur in a vacuum - widely
understood as interaction of nature and nurture (including the role of
learning as leading development); and
2) the notion that those who present the 'symptoms' of being 'disordered' is
itself a construct of a particular culture in context, that is (with some
imagination) in other times and places perhaps such traits may have had
value to a particular group, but in western society, these traits become
redundant.

My understanding of autism is limited, but these points describe my
understanding about ADHD/ADD, which I've spent an extensive amount of time
studying.
Cheers,
Deborah


Deborah Rockstroh 
Southern Cross University 

-----Original Message-----
From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
Behalf Of Peter Smagorinsky
Sent: Sunday, 8 April 2012 5:28 AM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: RE: [xmca] Aspergers/ASD

Good article, Martin--thanks for sharing. The author does a nice job of
noting the tension between "faddish" hyperdiagnosis and real attention to
people's differential makeups. 

-----Original Message-----
From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
Behalf Of Martin Packer
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 2:40 PM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: Re: [xmca] Aspergers/ASD

<http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/08/sunday-review/the-autism-wars.html?_r=1&p
artner=rss&emc=rss>

On Apr 7, 2012, at 12:40 PM, Peter Smagorinsky wrote:

> Elizabeth, I'd say it's possible, but a long way from being 
> documented. p
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> On Behalf Of Elizabeth Fein
> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 1:09 PM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: [xmca] Aspergers/ASD
> 
> This seems like a great time to introduce myself to the list, where I 
> have been lurking for a while. I actually began looking into CHAT (at 
> Greg's encouragement, after a paper I gave on the subject) as a way of 
> understanding how social/cultural/historical conditions might be 
> contributing to the rise of autism spectrum conditions. Peter, I am 
> looking forward to reading your articles. And I'll put my question out 
> there, as I am very curious to hear the responses of this
> group: Do you think there is any possibility that contemporary conditions
might be contributing to the rise in *actual cases* of autism spectrum
disorder (not just their detection). (I'm thinking in particular of factors
such as the individualization of society, the need to adhere to social norms
that are less explicit/structured and more based on flexibility in order to
win and maintain a social place, and the increased role of mimetic media
technology as a means of socialization). So,for example, the two
observations David made (that people may be losing opportunities to learn
the art of social reasoning at the same time that there is a heightened
demand for facility with decentered discourses) might be causing more people
not only to be DIAGNOSED, but also to DEVELOP in a way that comes off as
socially awkward and excessively "rote". 
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Elizabeth Fein, MA
> Ph.D. Candidate, University of Chicago Department of Comparative Human 
> Development Psychology Fellow, SociAbility
> (773)860-7275
> 
> 
> ---- Original message ----
>> Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2012 16:33:36 +0000
>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu (on behalf of Peter
> Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu>)
>> Subject: RE: [xmca] Piaget in Vygotsky 1962
>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>> 
>> Greg, I'm puzzled by your autism observation. The increase in
> autism spectrum conditions (and by calling it a disorder, you buy into 
> the deficit view of mental health difference) is generally attributed 
> to better diagnostic efforts in light of continued research into 
> mental health generally, including autism. I say this as someone on 
> the spectrum (Asperger's syndrome, which runs in my family). I've had 
> one paper published on this topic and have a couple more in press and 
> a few more in the conceptual stage (awaiting time to write them). I'd 
> be happy to share with others any of the following, if you write me 
> off-list. I was supposed to give one at ISCAR but couldn't make the 
> trip; I'll give another at AERA next weekend. p
>> 
>> 	Smagorinsky, P. (2011). Confessions of a mad
> professor: An autoethnographic consideration of neuroatypicality,
extranormativity, and education. Teachers College Record, 113, 1701-1732.
>> 	Smagorinsky, P. (in press). Vygotsky, "defectology," 
> and the inclusion of people of difference in the broader cultural stream.
Journal of Language and Literacy Education.
>> 	Smagorinsky, P. (in press). "Every individual has his
> own insanity": Applying Vygotsky's work on defectology to the question 
> of mental health as an issue of inclusion. Learning, Culture and 
> Social Interaction
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
> bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Greg Thompson
>> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 11:53 AM
>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Piaget in Vygotsky 1962
>> 
>> Larry,
>> and perhaps the incredibly high rates of "Autism Spectrum
> Disorder"
>> diagnosis in the U.S. is a sign of the times?
>> [At the very least, it should be noted that it is a wonderful
> fit for the particular here and now that we inhabit (by ourselves?)].
>> -greg
>> 
>> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Larry Purss
> <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks for the 2 versions of this response by Piaget.
>>> 
>>> I was interested in Piaget's comments on egocentrism [page
> 3] when he
>>> was talking about unconscious preferential focusing and a
> lack of
>>> differentiation of viewponts.  He gives the example of the
> beginning
>>> instructor who soon discovers that his first lectures were 
>>> incomprehensible because he was *talking to himself*, so to
> say,
>>> mindful only of his own point of view. The second example
> Piaget gives
>>> is developing the capacity to place oneself in the shoes of
> the other
>>> [taking the point of view of one's partner] in order to
> convince the other *on his own ground*.
>>> 
>>> As I read Piaget's explanation of egocentrism [and its
> continuing
>>> expression throughout the lifespan] I was wondering if this
> ability
>>> [achievement?] to decenter and shift perspectives can be
> viewed as an
>>> *art* form or a *skill* that requires certain dialogical
> *ways* of
>>> expression.
>>> This leads to further wondering if the *distortions* in our
> current
>>> housing arrangements; for example how we are becoming more 
>>> *self*-contained and living *solo* [50% of all residences
> in New York
>>> city are occupied by a single occupant] may be  having the
> unintended
>>> consequence that we may be loosing the *art* form of
> *social* reasoning.
>>> 
>>> I guess a counter argument could be made that living alone
> requires
>>> more
>>> *skill* in decentering as we are constantly thrown into
> novel
>>> discursive situations.
>>> 
>>> Just wondering.
>>> 
>>> Larry
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 2:33 PM, David Kellogg 
>>> <vaughndogblack@yahoo.com
>>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Mike:
>>>> 
>>>> Actually, the version up on the Marxists Internet Archive
> is missing
>>>> a page and Parsons' translation, although good, is not
> complete in places.
>>>> 
>>>> Here's a version we did, alongside the standard
> translation. The
>>>> boxes
>>> are
>>>> part of a discussion we had in our group when we were
> doing T&S in
>>> Korean.
>>>> 
>>>> I didn't answer your last on Basov, mostly because I was
> trying to
>>>> find some Basov beyod what was published in the JREEP
> myself. 
>>>> Besides that,
>>> the
>>>> only thing I know about Basov is the (generally very
> favorable)
>>> references
>>>> in HDHMF.
>>>> 
>>>> What surprises me is that both Basov and Vygotsky are
> indebted to
>>> Volkelt,
>>>> of all people, for the distinction between analysis into
> units and
>>> analysis
>>>> into elements! And where exactly did Vygotsky get the
> idea that
>>>> behavior evolves just as organs do, if not from Lorenz
> and
>>>> Tinbergen? It might be from Jennings, but in Jennings
> it's not
>>>> exactly behavior itself that evolves; only the
> affordances of an organism's internal organs.
>>>> 
>>>> David Kellogg
>>>> Hankuk University of Foreign Studies
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --- On Fri, 4/6/12, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: [xmca] Piaget in Vygotsky 1962
>>>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture,Activity" 
> <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>>>> Date: Friday, April 6, 2012, 10:43 AM
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Does anyone have a copy of Piaget's piece on Thought and
> Language
>>>> from 1962?
>>>> mike
>>>> __________________________________________
>>>> _____
>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>> 
>>>> __________________________________________
>>>> _____
>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> __________________________________________
>>> _____
>>> xmca mailing list
>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>> Sanford I. Berman Post-Doctoral Scholar Laboratory of Comparative 
>> Human Cognition Department of
> Communication University of California, San Diego 
> http://ucsd.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>> __________________________________________
>> _____
>> xmca mailing list
>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>> 
>> 
>> __________________________________________
>> _____
>> xmca mailing list
>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> 
> 
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca

__________________________________________
_____
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca


__________________________________________
_____
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca

__________________________________________
_____
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca