Re: [xmca] Interpreting Leontiev: functionalism and Anglo Finnish Insufficiences

[mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>]

Darn, Christine, old man that i am I did not know that my journey had
ended. Perhaps a little like the man in the painting imagined by Prince
Myshkin who has a second or two after the guillotine has sliced off his
head to think about what has happened.

I cannot speak to all of the issues you raise for lack  of knowledge, but i
do have some knowledge of intervention research in the CHAT tradition, and
I believe there is a lot to what you say about problems of agency, power,
domination -- a whole lot. Which is to say, I guess, that it squares with
my experience. The act of reaching is itself ambiguous in the moment, of
course, but when there are issues of money and power differential, as there
always are in such projects,  it is frought, whatever the good intentions
of the person who hand is moving toward the other's body.

I take it that a major goal of Developmental Work Research is to shift of
collective agency in the intervention activity. But DWR work does not meet
criteria important to Morten, presumably because it makes an Anglo-Finnish
misinterpretation of Leontiev. At least we all talk to the Danes! :-)

Andy-- Somewhere in this chain of messages someone did not clip the
trailing messages and the chain is very long. Scrolling through to get to
Christine's message I hit upon the soothing words off marxists.org about
pragmatists. I sure did fall in with a bad lot back there in the middle
west of the united states! Darn good thing I could get to Moscow where
Lenin was on every bookshelf.

I have been trying to repent, but as you can see, struggling with the dead
hand of the past. Still, I feel like i am learning a lot. Odd.

:-))

For those celebrating holidays, best wishes for a pleasant respite from
work-a-day cares. And for those like me, who appreciate this community's
generosity with its time, many thanks for being t/here.

mike


On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 9:16 AM, christine schweighart <
schweighartgate@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> Yes Andy ,
> It seemed clear at the time but my last post was very badly written.  My
> gist was Morten uses a concept where prototyping figures in interventions
> with often marginalised people ( I recall - because he came to the UK with
> Ines Langemeir and PhD students  attended the workshops. At least two
> people conveyed to me the beneficial influence of this  - and one was
> trying to 'pass the baton on' via me).  Yet my point was that the
> 'marginalised' , being 'touched' by the experience might be the ones to
>  reach to, not only the PhD students - and these persons are actually
> necessary to relate with to encounter the growing point of development of
> 'theory'. i.e my writing was trying to convey the complexity of achieving
> this in intervention 'projects'. Where an important aspect is that
> different sciences do not cannibalise each other upon their encounter, yet
> orient not to their 'discipline' but to the 'object' of projects.
>
> My references to Talcot Parson and his student Luhmann: when 'systems'
> developed to take an 'interpretive' turn it came out of projects and
> action-research practice- not an intellectual exercise of 'chosing' Husserl
> - this was to convey to others. The ACTUALITY became important and oriented
> to in relation to reality ( and taking up a social 'function' oriented
>  purposefully ( around notion of 'motive' in that AR context terms). At
> this moment VALUE entered the methodological toolset, by means of
> 'weltanschauung' ( ambiguously figuring - so there grew 3 forms of
> Weltanscahuung  being distinguished. etc).  At present the 'tool' to attend
> to Actuality has become 'rich picture' i.e as open as possible -
> 'expression' not necessarily in 'word' form- left to the creative
> orientation of those 'present - and this is very important ( I emphasise)
> because to be able to give oneself 'over' into collective needs to be
> oriented to freely, in the most  '' human aware  '' not obligation for
> other/coersive way etc. Sounds corny but this is then social context
> enabled  pleasure - not 'duty' .  [ OK enough romaticism! but  I find this
> value more in Andalucia 'everywhere' than I find in the UK - for example.
> Actuality has been explored by two PhD studies in particular Costas
> Tsouvalis who  studies Foucoult and 'introduced 'actuality' to attend to
> the movement from 'expression' to 'theoretical systems thinking'. I orient
> to Davydov's empirical thinking and 'theoretical thinking'  and their
> relation here.  The second was a Japanese PhD at the LSE - Kenichi Uchiyama
> ( at soem point president of the A-R society in Japan I believe...) Who
> introduced 'auto-affection' and 'inverted' the modelling relations. In his
> insight from Japnese culture.So most important to be 'inclusive' of those
> that are not the 'university researchers' is to endeavour to put the tools
> in the 'hands' of 'those in the wild' in Morten's terms - The value or
> principle here , is that they actually 'know' much more already.
>
> In Autopoiesis Maturana could only rest orientation to others on 'love' ,
> the late fransico Varela - explored 'energy' , interesting. - we do not
> have the science yet to 'explain ' that.
>
> In my references to 'peasants' this same principle applies and after I
> found this  website: NB this person is only about 50 kilometers away from
> where I live - yet I came to his work via this technology and the
> collaborative enquiry in this thread - amazing!!
> http://www.thinkbuddha.org/article/389/blogging-philosophy-part-ii-hanging-out-with-the-peasants
>
>  I can't remember what I was orienting to with 'wise men' - BUT they were
> from the East - they were following stars ( as they were astronomers and
> scientists) , but in Spanish culture Christmas is centred on the Reyes
> Magos ( magicians  who bring incredible gifts). In the Catholic conquest of
> the Al-Andalus the religious upheaval often only inscribed very thinly over
> the Moorish culture ( e.g fixed a few word on a sacred place; or posted a
> cross on only the very top of the mosque), and so in the Christmas fable
> the 'Reyes Magos ' remain in all depth.
>
> Excuse my fable: they are still travelling arriving 6th January
> http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reyes_Magos - it's a homage to a 'conquered'
> - but really more strongly 'revered' culture, somehow both together  and
> living in-between.
>
> Also after mentioning peasants - and how they are NOT illiterate - ie have
> great wisdom - I found this
> http://www.thinkbuddha.org/article/389/blogging-philosophy-part-ii-hanging-out-with-the-peasants
>
> But from this perspective I would like to explore Vasilyuk and his
> 'function' of Value as concept.
>
> Also I wrote a paper to the UK systems society over the summer and they
> are interested , so I'd like to know what I'm 'inventing' . Someone from
> the Moscow Methodology Circle came to talk and we could have a conversation
>  ( I was interested because of Davydov's 'learning games in organisations).
> They use 'lots' of games ( i.e as in metaphor many  times exploring
> together helps context of actuality to surface.). Though there is play
> activity and  also 'learning activity' - luckily they have abandoned
> through experience- 'thinking activity' - this was very funny to hear in
> the talk.
>
> Still, that's hopefully a bit more coherent Andy and others - I don't know
> how old the wise MEN are reckoned to be Mike and  Michael:)) but it's nice
> that they went on their journey.
> Christine
>
>
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