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Re: [xmca]schools-without-computers-by-choice-and-conviction-that-they-dont-help-kids
On 26 October 2011 14:02, Peter Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu> wrote:
> OK, I wrote too fast. The authors do acknowledge that:
>
> Though no one has tried to convince the Valley's best and brightest to sign
> up for batteries of tests, the culture of the area has subtly evolved to
> meet the social needs of adults in high-functioning regions of the spectrum.
> In the geek warrens of engineering and R&D, social graces are beside the
> point. You can be as off-the-wall as you want to be, but if your code is
> bulletproof, no one's going to point out that you've been wearing the same
> shirt for two weeks. Autistic people have a hard time multitasking -
> particularly when one of the channels is face-to-face communication.
> Replacing the hubbub of the traditional office with a screen and an email
> address inserts a controllable interface between a programmer and the chaos
> of everyday life. Flattened workplace hierarchies are more comfortable for
> those who find it hard to read social cues. A WYSIWYG world, where respect
> and rewards are based strictly on merit, is an Asperger's dream.
>
>
Through work in fairly intense fields of software I'd concur that there is a
noticable shift towards certain kinds of behaviour, including:
+ Treatment of the symbol for the thing referred to.
+ Certain strongly held rituals or methods that can otherwise be seen to be
rather arbitrary.
+ Little communication, including technical matters such as the meaning and
coherence of software.
Depending on the work quality aimed for, these can be rather
counterproductive. Hence the argument about "bulletproof" though widely
accepted is also misguided.
With respect to the author (and pretty much most of what I've read in papers
on this subject) the article also demonstrates a profound failure to
understand what technology is and what education is. If we were to grant
the author any kudos it would be for stirring up interest, presumably to
retain a readership. I think it's a real shame that our media is so badly
misinformed and, worse, that people tolerate it.
Huw
>
> So, I stand corrected.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> Behalf Of Peter Smagorinsky
> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 8:57 AM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: RE:
> [xmca]schools-without-computers-by-choice-and-conviction-that-they-dont-help-kids
>
>
>
> The Wired article Michael refers to is at
> http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aspergers_pr.html
>
>
>
> I don't know what sort of expertise the paper's authors have about mental
> health, but it appears that they are electronics geeks and not health care
> professionals. I would interpret the situation differently than do the
> authors. I am on the Asperger's spectrum, as is my daughter, as is my
> nephew, and I suspect others in my family as well. Many adults learn of
> their own Asperger's when getting their children diagnosed (my experience,
> as well as others'; see Page, T. (2009). Parallel play: Growing up with
> undiagnosed Asperger's. New York: Doubleday.
>
>
>
> I imagine that professions such as the professoriate and high-tech research
> attract people who have exceptional focus and who are detail-oriented at the
> exclusion of all else, two traits of Asperger's. Asperger's also runs in
> families. So given that my expertise in this area is at least as great as
> that of the Wired authors, I would offer the alternative hypothesis that
> Silicon Valley has lots of kids with Asperger's because the high-tech
> industry has attracted many adults who present traits of Asperger's, even if
> they haven't been diagnosed and even if they are not looking to themselves
> as the possible genetic (in the biological, not developmental sense) source
> of the condition in their own children.
>
>
>
> Computers can be the source of human interaction for people without people
> skills (another Asperger's trait), so it's not surprising that these kids
> are computer-oriented to the point where their parents might discourage
> environments where computers are available and encouraged, especially if a
> spouse is not on the Asperger's spectrum and does not understand the sorts
> of fixations we go through and tries to re-route the kids in a
> technology-free setting.
>
>
>
> All this is just speculative, but it's at least as plausible as anything in
> the Wired article.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu<mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
> [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]<mailto:[mailto:
> xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]> On Behalf Of Michael Glassman
>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 8:03 AM
>
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>
> Subject: RE:
> [xmca]schools-without-computers-by-choice-and-conviction-that-they-dont-help-kids
>
>
>
> There may be a lot more to this than meets the eye. A couple of years ago
> there was an article in Wired suggesting children of parents working in
> Silicon Valley had a higher incidence of Aspberger's and that parents were
> kind of worried about this. So this idea of no computer schools may in some
> ways be a response to that.
>
>
>
> There is also the idea of who is actually interviewed in the article and
> quote in the blog post. The head of e-bay isn't really that much of a
> technology person, more of a businessman, and I believe a strong
> libertarian. Don't assume the Silicon Valley people have that good a grasp
> of education. Remember Bill Gates (I know, he's Seattle) and his foundation
> are in my opinion doing more harm than good to open and progressive
> education. The other person writes speeches for Eric Schmitt, who again is
> a business person not a technology person. The magic words Silicon Valley
> are not synomous with knowledge or even strong affinity for varied
> potentials of technology.
>
>
>
> Perhaps the darkest part of this is that when the children who go to these
> Waldorf schools go home they are most probably immersed in a very advanced
> technological ecology where they and the people around them are using
> different types of tools and applications at a pretty high rate. Probably
> the stuff these students get in school is somewhat redundant. This is not
> true for people from different, often lower SES backgrounds. We are a
> backwards nation in many ways when it comes to making technology available
> for all (braodband is probably prohibitively expensive for many, and while
> there is some public access it is often limited and often not very good).
> Schools are the only place many children get to use technology on a regular
> basis.
>
>
>
> So then what is the point of the Times article and the blog post? Is it
> even people from Silicon Valley don't want computers in their schools so why
> should we wiring our schools at all? Or is it something else?
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu<mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu%3cmailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>
> on behalf of Bill Kerr
>
> Sent: Wed 10/26/2011 7:37 AM
>
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>
> Subject: Re:
> [xmca]schools-without-computers-by-choice-and-conviction-that-they-dont-help-kids
>
>
>
> The constructionist use of computers in schools as developed by Seymour
> Papert and allies is still a fruitful one. The modern incarnation of the
> software is scratch from MIT http://scratch.mit.edu/ but it remains true
> that to understand its educational philosophy fully you need to read some
> books. One idea is "hard play". Another is "low entry, high ceiling". This
> was modified a little in scratch to "low floor, wide walls".
>
>
>
> Moreover, the one laptop per child (OLPC) as developed by Negroponte and
> allies remains a worthwhile experiment to kick start learning for third
> world children.
>
>
>
> Peter, all the link shows is that mediocre use of computers leads to
> mediocre results.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 8:24 PM, Peter Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu<mailto:
> smago@uga.edu<mailto:smago@uga.edu%3cmailto:smago@uga.edu>>> wrote:
>
>
>
> >
>
> > http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2011/10/26/schools-without-comp
>
> > uters-by-choice-and-conviction-that-they-dont-help-kids/?cxntfid=blogs
>
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