Re: [xmca] adverbial qualified movement, action, being

[Haydi Zulfei <haydizulfei@rocketmail.com>]

Andy,

[[you ask if it is what we "make" of an experience that is determinative if it

is "vital".  I would suggest that the term how we "participate" rather than

"make" is central to exploring "vital experience".  Making is one particular

approach to engaging vital experience.  This is a vital experience that

transforms the individual person's orientation within the world.  This is an

agentive response that has the quality of being a "personal" decision.  I

would like to suggest this is one particular way to intergrate "vital

experience in our proceeding along pathways. I would even suggest this may

be the particular way forward that is biased as an approach within modernity

as an ethical way of life.

>From this perspective "vital experience" can be personally "undergone" and

through struggle and courageously exploring of personal inscapes the person

can change direction and "make" something different of their lives

[develop] ]]

Dear all 

This is part of a message by dear Larry . I've been to this forum for long . i get confused reading the passage . i ask myself where the reason lies . one reason might be my ignorance . but that's not all to it . one thing i think about is we do not take into account the politics of the time . i don't say this should be a political forumn ; no , but if politics says who governs , who is governed by , then everything differs . On the whole , we reached a conclusion that Vygotsky has , at least , a half-glance at Marxism . The other seven of his disciples , too . Activity Theory has its roots in Marxism . My experience tells me when discussions approach a concrete stance , even our weaker ones could make a sense of the discussion . Four of our dears I can name as exemplars are : Mike , Andy , Martin , David . Let's follow their suit . 

I should be forgiven if I claim I curse this word "any" . In two articles , Andy Blunden and Peter Jones , long ago , discussed that by "work" , they didn't mean "any" "work" . They and Marx meant "valorization" Process ; the work which creates "value" . It's that "value" --surplus--which is appropriated by capitalists . Our friends say Freire talks about oppression in education but one cannot get the idea how this oppression could be eliminated . Within capitalism or outside of it ? and if outside of it , how and by what means ? Being at it , one good researcher Julian Williams , using the content of Lave and McDermott's article of 2002 , had her debate on comparing Labour alianation and educational education . This good Lady referred us to a response Peter Jones had had to her article . Everybody were silent about this important matter .

[[I would suggest that the term how we "participate" rather than

"make" is central to exploring "vital experience".]]

If I claim that I want to go further than "individual" or "persoanl" , what could be my today's "vital experience" ? I'm wrong if I say ? : the recession in the capitalist world , the hasty William Hague who wants to put an end to every bitter taste in the impoverished , oppressed , backward Middle East so that His treasury might not get exausted sooner and earlier than predicted and to this end even people's lives are not important for Him , the Air Bombardments of the Evil Nato , the natural and social mishaps quite afresh to the mouths of our noble westerners ? Then where do you want to participate ? and in what ? did you join the demonstrations in the American streets for the quite genuine serious class differentiations / exploitation ? Here people are killed when they demonstrate but that's not for you there .  

[[This is a vital experience that

transforms the individual person's orientation within the world.]]

I think and you know for certain that this is not the "any" individual who is orientated within the world . It is , you say more emphatically than I do , the COLLECTIVIZED individual person , all along with His co-partners of the same rank and class , who are orientated and then are destined to enter battling with the not yet transformed ?? world of oppression , genocide , slaughter and cruelty .  An individual does not sleep one especial night and does not awake the next day with social justice at her bosom . Transformations WITHIN requires a calling on the WITHOUT . How is it that a new-born needs socialization but adults could live on her own , agentively as you say or at most with the dead experiences internalized and , true , if vital , ones need be , where should we be orientated / stationed so that "vitality" could be secured and gauranteed ? 

 [[This is an

agentive response that has the quality of being a "personal" decision.]]

I seek your forgiveness if I say this yet smacks of a "gone with the wind only not to return" world of capitalistic struggle against  feudalism , fraternity , equality and ... . This means "individual" decision not "personal" decision in the sense of Vygotsky and Leontyev's "SENSE" . I remember Leontyev somewhere saying : an instinct of hunger just raises the animal to its feet , the rest remains for her to orientate within the surrounding and environment . you need a decent life ; then in the social milieu , the environment , the objective field , the object world , many things are located and contiguous . You have to choose one / some to satisfy your need . That thing or things becomes/become the "motive" of the activity you're going to fulfill . You've , then , gone to a world of decision making , agency as you remind us of . An exploiter seeks an instrument of murder ; an exploited seeks a means of emancipation . For the explited , the general
 social meaning of "any" and "every" equality in the AIR has been vanished . 

might continue ...

All the best 

Haydi













































  



 

________________________________
From: Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>
To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
Sent: Thursday, 6 October 2011, 16:25:49
Subject: [xmca] adverbial qualified movement, action, being


The discussion of vivencia has me pondering


The turn to discussing "vital experience" or being as qualified being [not

qualia] seems to be an opening with potential and possibility.


Andy,

you ask if it is what we "make" of an experience that is determinative if it

is "vital".  I would suggest that the term how we "participate" rather than

"make" is central to exploring "vital experience".  Making is one particular

approach to engaging vital experience.  This is a vital experience that

transforms the individual person's orientation within the world.  This is an

agentive response that has the quality of being a "personal" decision.  I

would like to suggest this is one particular way to intergrate "vital

experience in our proceeding along pathways. I would even suggest this may

be the particular way forward that is biased as an approach within modernity

as an ethical way of life.

>From this perspective "vital experience" can be personally "undergone" and

through struggle and courageously exploring of personal inscapes the person

can change direction and "make" something different of their lives

[develop]


However, alternatively, the person could possibly be "met" [alterity] and

in this "I-YOU" meeting "vital experience" is transformed and new pathways

open.  I wonder if this alternative way of engaging "vital experience" is

through "witnessing" [as I explored recently] This is another way of

engaging "vital experience" that does not emphasize the personal courageous

aspect of transformation [as making] but rather points to "being met" within

the "vital experience".


I've contrasted and made distinct two possible openings of development

[transformation or in*formation]  One emphasing a journey through inscapes,

the other through intersubjective "holding environments". In actuality there

may be multiple flow-forms and interweavings of these multiple strands of

"vital experience"  What I'm pointing to is our socio-cultural biases in

modernity  to validate the "inscapes" as legitimate [good] pathways of

transformation while invalidating the inter-subjective witnessing pathways

to transformation.  [as dependency and defended against] In other words we

don't really "trust" the other will actually respond to the calling of "vial

experience".

Andy, I grant that after being "met" [which I believe may be developmental

in its own movement] there follow other phases or levels of transformation

that bring us back to "spaces of reason" "propositional language games"

"agentive stances of *making* ones way in the world", etc.

This becomes a cultural-historical narrative of projects and objects and

activity.  I also grant "meeting" as I'm discussing it is "normative" and an

ethical stance towards alterity [including one's own alterity].  However as

a particular form of participation it may have as much validity and

legitimacy as the moe courageous form of turning towards inscapes for

transormation.


Larry

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