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Re: [xmca] varying definitions of perezhivanie

Hello, very exciting, the different translations.

Yes, and the confusion, contradicition, "crisis" is perfect.

I can understand that you, Mike, experience confusion.
But "special kind of experience of "activity on oneself" in moments of crisis", does not need to be "individual identity", only.
The self, or as Fernando said in Rome, a subjective sense is created by and in the social activities, an individual is part of. Or by "history". 

...
For me the "activity in oneself" is not an individual only, who is acting. It is both created by "needs" we have in common with all life on earth (Phylogenesis), and some special needs we have in common with only human beings (Phylogenesis) , some motives I have in common with the community I am part of (Sociogenesis), and my own narrative (Ontogenesis), which always is influenced by all the dialogs I am and have been part of.
But, I am confused, too, and perhaps what I say is far out, in relation to perezhivanie.
Therefore, at the moment, I still think, it is that, which creates my or our "Erlebnis" for me or us. 

...

All this makes me remember:
“The self is a relation which relates itself to its own self, or it is that in the relation that the relation relates itself to its own self; the self is not the relation*but that* the relation relates itself to its own self.” 
-- Søren Kierkegaard </author/show/6172.S_ren_Kierkegaard>


In this sentence, the "but that" would for me be near perezhivanie.

Volker
Den 02-10-2011 01:15, mike cole skrev:

OK, everyone is far away from being an expert.
But........

How do you respond to the notion of "Self-regulated psychological system of
personality" as a synonym for perezhivanie and the discussion of similar
terms
in German and Spanish?

I find it interesting that Vasiliuk argues that perezhivanie is a special
kind of experience of "activity on oneself" in moments of crisis. The whole
idea of "individual activity" is a constant source of confusion for me, but
confronted with an example of a person's mate dying as the medium for
discussion of perezhivanie makes me stop and think.
mike

On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Michael Levykh<mlevykh@shaw.ca>  wrote:


  Thank you, Mike. But I am far from being an expert. As for the
discussion, I have been only passively following on and off this one.****

Michael ****
  ------------------------------

*From:* mike cole [mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com]
*Sent:* October-01-11 3:57 PM
*To:* Michael Levykh
*Cc:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
*Subject:* Re: [xmca] varying definitions of perezhivanie****

** **

Good to have an expert involved, Michael.
What is your interpretation of the recent discussion of this issue?
mike****

On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Michael Levykh<mlevykh@shaw.ca>  wrote:***
*

I hope the following paragraph from my 2008 PhD Theses might shed a bit
more light on your discussion: ****

  ****

Vasilyuk (1984) writes in his annotation to *Psikhologia Perezhivaniya*(Psychology of Perezhivaniye), that in order to manage (perezhits)
“situations of stress, frustration, inner conflict, and life crisis, quite
often a painful inner work has to be done in re-establishing inner
equilibrium and reconstructing a new meaningful life” (para. 1, my
translation). For him, even a painful experience in the past can be
recreated as a positive, pleasurable, meaningful future-oriented experience
of personality. Hence, perezhivaniye is a future-oriented, conscious, and
individual emotional experience of past events achieved in the
“here-and-now” through reflection on the individual’s struggle within
himself/herself (e.g., as if struggling between the dual consciousness of
self and the character he/she portrays) and with the social environment
(e.g., his/her audience). Although perezhivaniye connotes mostly negative
(painful) experience of the past, its future-orientedness provides
possibilities for positive outcomes. Such positive possibilities are also
reflected in Vygotsky’s optimistic views on cultural development in general.
****

  ****

Michael Levykh****

  ****

  ****

-----Original Message-----
From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
Behalf Of mike cole
Sent: October-01-11 2:53 PM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture,Activity
Subject: [xmca] varying definitions of perezhivanie****

  ****

Below are two snippets from Vasiliuk's book which have informed my,****

still forming, understanding (s) of perezhivanie as used by Russians.****

  ****

Its from Vasiliuk's book, The psych of experiencing. There is a ton to the
****

book of interest but****

these citations bring out a feature of perezhivanie that is not evident in
****

"lived through experience"****

nor even in "a mixture of emotion and cognition" versions.****

  ****

This book is written within a dialogue with activity theory. perezhivanie
is****

translated as experiencing.****

  ****

mike****

---------------****

  ****

But in this real world, in life, situations exist where the main problem**
**

cannot be solved either by practical activity, even the best-equipped, or
by****

the most highly accurate reflection of that problem in the mind. If a
person****

is threatened by danger he can try to save himself by running away, but as
****

R. Peters writes, “if a man is overcome by grief because his wife is dead,
****

what can be done of a specific sort to remedy *that *situation?”****

  ****

  ****

  ****

… when we speak of “generating meaning” what we have in mind is a****

special *activity****

on the part of the individual*. 7****

  ****

The specifics of this activity are determined by the peculiarities of the*
***

situations which put the individual under the necessity of experiencing. We
****

shall refer to these as critical situations. If one had to use one word
only****

to define the nature of such situations one would have to say that they are
****

situations of impossibility. Impossibility of what? Impossibility of
living,****

of realising the internal necessities of life.****

The struggle against that impossibility, the struggle to realise internal*
***

necessities — that is experiencing. Experiencing is the repair of a****

“disruption” of life, a work of restoration, proceed-ing as it were at
right****

angles to the line of actualisation of life.****

__________________________________________****

_____****

xmca mailing list****

xmca@weber.ucsd.edu****

http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca****

** **


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--
Volker Bunzendahl, Lektor
Cand.psych. og Konsulent

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