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[xmca] Collective Experience vs. Individual Experience?
Tony, Andy, and mike,
What you are describing sounds very similar to Volosinov's (not Bakhtin's?!) discussion of behavioral ideology (MaPoL, p. 91). Using Volosinov (and Durkheim) I would like to point out a sense of "experience" that I think is missing in your description - namely the sense in which an individual's experience is "of a sociological character," as Volosinov writes. Let me just add that I think Volosinov is one of the key figures to turn to in addressing this question of individual vs. collective experience (see esp. V's "I-experience" vs. the "we-experience" on p. 87). Maybe even more so than Schutz.
I'd also like to add Durkheim (a CHAT theorist?) to the mix. What D describes as "collective effervescence" (the grateful dead concernt) is perhaps the strongest way of forming a "we." To understand this, I think that we need to attend to the semiotics of these moments. Durkheim does well to note the importance of the image of the totem which stands simultaneously as reservoir of the high feelings of excitement that the individual experienced with the group AND at the same time as the thing that represents the group. There is a semiotic efficiency here that is hard to match in other types of group-making (although later criticisms, e.g. Levine, have pointed to the fact that "collective effervescence" is not as universal as Durkheim proposed - there are those who are present in the ritual but who remain "outside" of the experience of collective effervescence).
In those other type of group-making, (e.g., California's once college-bound students who constitute a group by virtue? of their collective experience of rejection), the semiotics of the situation (V.'s "sociological character) play an even greater role. This is because the semiotics of the situation can function to organize the nature of that experience. The California student who is rejected from the UC school system will, in some sense, feel something similar to other students who experience "the same" situation (note the scare quotes!!!), but this really depends on how they see that situation. Were they rejected simply because they were not good enough for the school? Were they rejected because the school was not good enough for them (i.e., admissions office couldn't see their true potential?)? Or was their failure not a failure at all but instead the result of unfair preferential treatment of less qualified minorities? Or was their rejection the result of a failure of the government (the sovereign?, the people?) to educate the populace? (after writing this, I realized striking parallels to V's middle para on p. 87 of MaPoL).
These questions all depend on how the experience is discursively framed (bringing Foucault together with Goffman) - i.e. the ways in which experience is organized so as to become meaningfully recognizable to individual persons. These meaningfully recognizable experiences (aka "constructions" of experience) not only organize one's experience but they also authorize one to respond in particular ways to one's experience. These "authorizations" are moral and ethical in nature and are also have origins in the group. Should the rejected California student become depressed about their failure? Should they file suit against the school for discrimination - or otherwise protest the preferential treatment of minorities? Should they participate in a mass collective activity where they try to "raise awareness"? Should they ignore it and carry on with their life, certain that other institutions will recognize their potential?
This is not to suggest some kind of determination by these discursive framings. The complexity here is overwhelming and there is a lot of "play" in this act of meaning making. All of these (and more) discourses are circulating "out there" and will "touch" people in different ways - making one particular discursive framing more apt for the moment (and another for the next). By "touch" I mean both that they will "make contact with" and "have emotional resonance with." Depending upon what circles you run in, different discourses will or will not make contact you. But there is also the sense in which we are emotionally moved by a discourse once it makes contact with us. Here, I think we return to Durkheim and totems - what are the signs and symbols that are charged up with positive emotion such that one feels a particular discourse makes "sense" and is right, true, and beautiful? The point here is that these emotional resonances are important in sense making, and that activity alone does not determine what participants will "experience".
And this all just points to the importance of being cautious when speaking of "individual" or "collective" experience.
I'd love to hear more of a discussion of Volosinov. Do you feel like what you are saying is fundamentally different from V.?
-greg
>Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:09:54 +1000
>From: Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
>Subject: Re: [xmca] Collective Experience vs. Individual Experience?
> (Help, anyone?)
>To: ablunden@mira.net, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>Message-ID: <4E782022.4090807@mira.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>Ah, I have to correct my error. What is more productive of a "we" than a
>shared experience is *doing* something together, a shared project.
>andy
>
>Andy Blunden wrote:
>> I think nothing makes a "we" more effectively than a shared
>> experience, and yes Mike, I take it that there is very much a temporal
>> dimension here. It could be as long as "the protest movement of the
>> 60s" or "in the war," or "growing up in xville," but archetypically,
>> it is Tony's earthquake - being there on that day.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> mike cole wrote:
>>> That helps, tony. It sent me back to re-read Andy's note.
>>>
>>> Andy wrote:
>>>
>>> You have an experience, and then you find that everyone else
>>> experienced the
>>> same thing and that event then becomes a central focus of your
>>> collaboration
>>> with other people.
>>>
>>> Re-reading reinforces my intuition of the time dimension. "In the
>>> instant"
>>> (which can fell likes hours and even be hours) it is quite localized
>>> in an
>>> individual life. In daily life it comes to known to be shared (we had
>>> a huge
>>> blackout here- similar sequence) and spreads out and across people.
>>> In the
>>> longer run it comes to have a kind of "precipitated" enduring
>>> presence that
>>> shades into collective memory.
>>>
>>> (I know, I am prone to threes, but something like this?)
>>> mike
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 9:04 PM, Tony Whitson <twhitson@udel.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> What I mean by "shared experience," as something between individual and
>>>> collective experience, is perfectly captured by how Andy characterizes
>>>> shared experience. I experience something & find out you and I have
>>>> both had
>>>> that experience in common, and it has the power Andy describes.
>>>>
>>>> What I mean by collective experience is experience in which the
>>>> experience
>>>> of others participates in the experience of any one, in the course
>>>> of the
>>>> experiencing. Temporal aspects are certainly crucial for this.
>>>>
>>>> A single mother who has lost her job in "the great recession" and
>>>> who is
>>>> worried sick -- literally, to the point of being unable to sleep,
>>>> and maybe
>>>> even vomiting from stress-induced gastro-whatever -- is experiencing
>>>> something somatically in a way that is particular to her own individual
>>>> body; but, at the same time, it is not just an individual
>>>> experience, like
>>>> my experience of the shaking that I realized only after a few
>>>> seconds must
>>>> be an earthquake. That mother's experience, through and through, is her
>>>> involvement in an experience that is irreducibly collective.
>>>>
>>>> Herder is relevant, but not the same -- he's more about culturally
>>>> (nationally) accumulated shared experience.
>>>>
>>>> I'm wondering if there's something in the literature of social
>>>> phenomenology (Schutz, maybe?).
>>>>
>>>> So, Larry, it's more or less up to people on the list what they will
>>>> take
>>>> up, and what they will pass by.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 19 Sep 2011, mike cole wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Tony- I am unclear about how your comments point to something between
>>>>
>>>>> individual and collective experience.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, the term experience evokes misunderstandings, but have you tried
>>>>> culture recently as a problem free alternative? :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Might temporal aspects of "an experience" play a role in the
>>>>> individual:collective
>>>>> distinction? Would that be an avenue to distinguishing an intermediate
>>>>> process?
>>>>>
>>>>> mike
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 6:14 PM, Tony Whitson <twhitson@udel.edu>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, Andy, that is helpful.
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Dewey is posted here:
>>>>>> https://tw-curricuwiki.**wikis**paces.com/Dewey--culture%**2C+**
>>>>>> experience<https://tw-**curricuwiki.wikispaces.com/**
>>>>>> Dewey--culture%2C+experience<https://tw-curricuwiki.wikispaces.com/Dewey--culture%2C+experience>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 20 Sep 2011, Andy Blunden wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Herder, as I understand him, saw collective experience as an
>>>>>> important
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> facet in the formation of the character of a people. I think part
>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>> problem is that "experience" has been such a contested term, Tony.
>>>>>>> Generally
>>>>>>> it has been co-opted by Empiricism, which is by its nature
>>>>>>> individualist
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> by definition the philosophy of experiene, but Dewey used the
>>>>>>> word in
>>>>>>> formulating his view. But didn't he later say that he regretted
>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> word "experience" because it led to misunderstandings? Personally, I
>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>> /shared/ experience is the most powerful force in changing
>>>>>>> Zeitgeist and
>>>>>>> individual mninds en masse. You have an experience, and then you
>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> everyone else experienced the same thing and that event then
>>>>>>> becomes a
>>>>>>> central focus of your collaboration with other people. What could be
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> world-changing?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tony Whitson wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This query is prompted by a new book:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Peck, Don. Pinched: How the Great Recession Has Narrowed Our
>>>>>>>> Futures
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> What We Can Do About It. New York: Crown Pub., 2011.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Pinched-****Great-Recession-Narrowed-**<http://www.amazon.com/Pinched-**Great-Recession-Narrowed-**>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Futures/dp/0307886522<http://**www.amazon.com/Pinched-Great-**
>>>>>>>> Recession-Narrowed-Futures/dp/**0307886522<http://www.amazon.com/Pinched-Great-Recession-Narrowed-Futures/dp/0307886522>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> /
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> in which the author looks more deeply into predictable
>>>>>>>> ramifications of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> current economic situation than I have seen in other recent work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Based on historical, sociological, and other literatures and
>>>>>>>> modes of
>>>>>>>> research, the author argues that what we're dealing with now is not
>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> wave in a recurring cycle. He predicts lasting changes that he
>>>>>>>> expects
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> deeply impact different generational cohorts for decades to come.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> His argument is plausible, at least, to me. But it prompts me to
>>>>>>>> wonder
>>>>>>>> about experience that is really collective experience, as
>>>>>>>> opposed to
>>>>>>>> individual experience.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Exposing my ignorance, I realize that I can't think of
>>>>>>>> literature on
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> nature and structure of collective experience. It seems like
>>>>>>>> there must
>>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>>> lot; but I can't think of it. It also seems like xmca is a
>>>>>>>> likely place
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> find people who would be interested, and would know about such
>>>>>>>> literature
>>>>>>>> (although it's not on-topic in the current threads).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm thinking of my first earthquake experience last month as an
>>>>>>>> example
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> an individual experience. It was totally unlike anything I'd ever
>>>>>>>> experienced before, and it took me a few seconds to even
>>>>>>>> recognize that
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>> earthquake is what was happening (we don't have those in
>>>>>>>> Delaware). I
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>> my desk, at home, by myself when it happened.
>>>>>>>> Of course, the experience was mediated after the fact from my
>>>>>>>> sociocultural
>>>>>>>> awareness of earthquakes. Still, I think it was an individual
>>>>>>>> experience
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> the moment, compared with the collective experience that Don
>>>>>>>> Peck is
>>>>>>>> writing
>>>>>>>> about -- an experience of events and developments over time, in
>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> experience of others participates, throughout, in the experience
>>>>>>>> of any
>>>>>>>> one.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am thinking that there might be something else that could be
>>>>>>>> called
>>>>>>>> "shared experience," intermediate between individual and collective
>>>>>>>> experience.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Does this make any sense? Is this question of interest to
>>>>>>>> anyone? Or am
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> naïvely wondering about things that have been well developed in the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> literature?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would be interested if anyone has ideas or references to share on
>>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________****____________
>>>>>>>> _____
>>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <http://dss.ucsd.**edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------****----------------------------**--**
>>>>>>> ------------
>>>>>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>>>>>> Joint Editor MCA: http://www.informaworld.com/**
>>>>>>> smpp/title~db=all~content=****g932564744<http://www.**
>>>>>>> informaworld.com/smpp/title%**7Edb=all%7Econtent=g932564744<http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/title%7Edb=all%7Econtent=g932564744>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>>>>>>> Book:
>>>>>>> http://www.brill.nl/default.****aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <http**://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?**partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________****____________
>>>>>>> _____
>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <http://dss.ucsd.**edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tony Whitson
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> UD School of Education
>>>>>> NEWARK DE 19716
>>>>>>
>>>>>> twhitson@udel.edu
>>>>>> ______________________________****_
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "those who fail to reread
>>>>>> are obliged to read the same story everywhere"
>>>>>> -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970)
>>>>>> ______________________________**____________
>>>>>> _____
>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________**____________
>>>>>>
>>>>> _____
>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Tony Whitson
>>>> UD School of Education
>>>> NEWARK DE 19716
>>>>
>>>> twhitson@udel.edu
>>>> ______________________________**_
>>>>
>>>> "those who fail to reread
>>>> are obliged to read the same story everywhere"
>>>> -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> __________________________________________
>>> _____
>>> xmca mailing list
>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>--
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>*Andy Blunden*
>Joint Editor MCA:
>http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/title~db=all~content=g932564744
>Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 16
>Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 10:11:09 +0300
>From: Bella Kotik-Friedgut <bella.kotik@gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [xmca] ISCAR (review)
>To: lchcmike@gmail.com, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>Message-ID:
> <CAEUxSQHtiZT14-extanajZ7XR2WXomfLz-Vm9Bvr_01xXxC6Qw@mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>Veresov's section was exactly about relation ( matching) between theory and
>practice; it was very lively thanks to Nickolay's charismatic leading the
>discussion.
>
>On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 7:00 AM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the added ideas, Volker-- A broad spectrum for sure.
>>
>> I have heard a couple of comments about a felt gap between theoretical
>> focus
>> and real life, practical relevance.
>>
>> Were there any discussions of the theory/practice relationship that seemed
>> to you helpful? Any good examples? I think this relates to the tension
>> between "teacher for the people" and "reviewers" but i am unsure.
>>
>> mike
>>
>>
>>
>> , Sep 13, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Volker Bunzendahl <volker@volker.dk> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > second thoughts, part 2:
>> >>
>> >
>> > the next session I attended to was:*Psychology of art and literature*,
>> > where *Ana María Rodriguez* talk about how art-workshops - for the
>> > participants, created an new way of self-experience, and change of
>> memory,
>> > through collective and public participation.*Bella Kotic-Friedgut* talked
>> > about Vygotskys early years, his writings about Hamlet, about Dostojevski
>> > and his "antisemitism", about how theater and the revolution in USSR -
>> for
>> > Vygotsky showed a contradiction, with similarity to our own role as
>> > researchers: Do we want to be "teacher for the people" or do we want to
>> be
>> > "reviewers"... or both, as reflective practitioners? *Ann Maj NIelsen*
>> > talked about her work with children's use of, and understanding of first
>> and
>> > second order symbolism. It demands that we are able to listen to
>> children,
>> > and that we manage to ask the questions, where children talk about their
>> > experience. We will then be able to be open for understanding the role of
>> > Sensory Appeal (in first order) and Cultural Codes (in second order
>> > symbolism), which shape what we understand or do not understand.
>> >
>> > the next day, key speaker number one, Lucy Suchman, about Human Artifact
>> > Interface. It was interesting, but her final point, that the best use of
>> > artifacts is in health care and the military, made me think: ok, we may
>> only
>> > shoot healthy people? - bad joke, but it was not my cop of cafe late.
>> >
>> > after that, *Elinor Ochs, Experiencing language.*
>> > She showed us four different views, 1) language as representational ,
>> where
>> > she combined Kohut and Geertz in an interesting way. Here we see symbolic
>> > language as authentic, and the society as immoral, in contrast to
>> > Aristoteles positive picture of "the political animal". On the other
>> hand,
>> > Wittgenstein shows us the opposite, symbolic language is in-authentic.
>> > View 2: (Lacan) Words as "master signifier", view 3: (Boas) Language is
>> not
>> > one-to-one mappings. Language is inherently categorical. Language has
>> > indexical capacity.
>> > View 4: Everyday language in movement as an experience of unfolding
>> meaning
>> > as a social and personal creation. Experience as performance - temporal
>> > unfolding living experiences..
>> >
>> > I have to read some of her work, I think, and she closed by pointing to a
>> > book by Agamben: the coming community.
>> >
>> > more to come ...
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ______________________________**____________
>> >
>> > _____
>> > xmca mailing list
>> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>> >
>> __________________________________________
>> _____
>> xmca mailing list
>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>
>
>
>
>--
>Sincerely yours Bella Kotik-Friedgut
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 17
>Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:12:28 +0100
>From: "Bruce Robinson" <bruce@brucerob.eu>
>Subject: Re: [xmca] Collective Experience vs. Individual Experience?
> (Help, anyone?)
>To: <ablunden@mira.net>, "eXtended Mind, Culture,Activity"
> <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>Message-ID: <14FB8D304B4C47BD812ECF253690C176@BRUCEROBINSOPC>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
>There seems to me to be an important distinction here that is blurred by the
>use of terms like 'shared' and 'collective'. On the one hand, there is the
>experience of crowds, demonstrations, football matches, picket lines,
>revolutions where the individual through direct participation in collective
>activity feels part of something bigger than themselves and sheds part of
>their individuality. Hence the feeling - very real - of being 'swept up in
>the crowd' doing things you would not normally choose to do as a result of
>directly feeling oneself part of a collective in action.
>
>This is described in detail from a CHAT perspective in Shah-Shuja's 2008
>book 'Zones of Proletarian Development'.
>
>This transformation of subjectivity is distinct from having just shared the
>same experience such as Tony's earthquake - experience is objectively shared
>but not necessarily recognised as shared or recognised not acted upon
>collectively.
>
>The distinction can be understood in Lefebvre's terms as the presence or
>absence of a social space - not necessarily physical proximity but a medium
>through which an acting collectivity can form. What is interesting is the
>creation of such a space as transition from objectively given to
>subjectively felt shared experience and collectivity.
>
>This can occur very rapidly as the simple result of knowing about others who
>feel the same way. Andrew Woods
>(http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/02/opinion/02iht-edwoods02.html?_r=1) refers
>to a psychological literature on 'pluralistic ignorance' and work of
>sociologist Hubert O'Gorman. It can also change just as a result of having
>information about what is going on.
>
>There are classic examples of this in the 'Arab Spring'. Many participants
>speak of a decisive moment when they overcame their fear and decided to go
>onto the streets as a result of knowing there were others prepared to do the
>same. Thus apparent stability can dissolve very quickly once atomisation is
>overcome and a social space comes about. So while talk of 'Twitter
>revolutions' is obvious hype, there is a truth in that in CHAT terms the
>mediating artefact enabled the creation of a collecive with a shared goal.
>
>Exactly how this happened including the subjective processes involved is
>investigated in the two BBC programmes "How Facebook Changed the World: The
>Arab Spring" |( http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b014l2ck ) which traces the
>development from the self-immolation of the market trader in Tunisia to the
>situation in July / August with lots of interviews with key activists.
>
>Bruce Robinson
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Andy Blunden" <ablunden@mira.net>
>To: <ablunden@mira.net>; "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
><xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 6:09 AM
>Subject: Re: [xmca] Collective Experience vs. Individual Experience?
>(Help,anyone?)
>
>
>> Ah, I have to correct my error. What is more productive of a "we" than a
>> shared experience is *doing* something together, a shared project.
>> andy
>>
>> Andy Blunden wrote:
>>> I think nothing makes a "we" more effectively than a shared experience,
>>> and yes Mike, I take it that there is very much a temporal dimension
>>> here. It could be as long as "the protest movement of the 60s" or "in the
>>> war," or "growing up in xville," but archetypically, it is Tony's
>>> earthquake - being there on that day.
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>>> mike cole wrote:
>>>> That helps, tony. It sent me back to re-read Andy's note.
>>>>
>>>> Andy wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You have an experience, and then you find that everyone else experienced
>>>> the
>>>> same thing and that event then becomes a central focus of your
>>>> collaboration
>>>> with other people.
>>>>
>>>> Re-reading reinforces my intuition of the time dimension. "In the
>>>> instant"
>>>> (which can fell likes hours and even be hours) it is quite localized in
>>>> an
>>>> individual life. In daily life it comes to known to be shared (we had a
>>>> huge
>>>> blackout here- similar sequence) and spreads out and across people. In
>>>> the
>>>> longer run it comes to have a kind of "precipitated" enduring presence
>>>> that
>>>> shades into collective memory.
>>>>
>>>> (I know, I am prone to threes, but something like this?)
>>>> mike
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 9:04 PM, Tony Whitson <twhitson@udel.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> What I mean by "shared experience," as something between individual and
>>>>> collective experience, is perfectly captured by how Andy characterizes
>>>>> shared experience. I experience something & find out you and I have
>>>>> both had
>>>>> that experience in common, and it has the power Andy describes.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I mean by collective experience is experience in which the
>>>>> experience
>>>>> of others participates in the experience of any one, in the course of
>>>>> the
>>>>> experiencing. Temporal aspects are certainly crucial for this.
>>>>>
>>>>> A single mother who has lost her job in "the great recession" and who
>>>>> is
>>>>> worried sick -- literally, to the point of being unable to sleep, and
>>>>> maybe
>>>>> even vomiting from stress-induced gastro-whatever -- is experiencing
>>>>> something somatically in a way that is particular to her own individual
>>>>> body; but, at the same time, it is not just an individual experience,
>>>>> like
>>>>> my experience of the shaking that I realized only after a few seconds
>>>>> must
>>>>> be an earthquake. That mother's experience, through and through, is her
>>>>> involvement in an experience that is irreducibly collective.
>>>>>
>>>>> Herder is relevant, but not the same -- he's more about culturally
>>>>> (nationally) accumulated shared experience.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm wondering if there's something in the literature of social
>>>>> phenomenology (Schutz, maybe?).
>>>>>
>>>>> So, Larry, it's more or less up to people on the list what they will
>>>>> take
>>>>> up, and what they will pass by.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 19 Sep 2011, mike cole wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Tony- I am unclear about how your comments point to something between
>>>>>
>>>>>> individual and collective experience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, the term experience evokes misunderstandings, but have you tried
>>>>>> culture recently as a problem free alternative? :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Might temporal aspects of "an experience" play a role in the
>>>>>> individual:collective
>>>>>> distinction? Would that be an avenue to distinguishing an intermediate
>>>>>> process?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 6:14 PM, Tony Whitson <twhitson@udel.edu>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks, Andy, that is helpful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Dewey is posted here:
>>>>>>> https://tw-curricuwiki.**wikis**paces.com/Dewey--culture%**2C+**
>>>>>>> experience<https://tw-**curricuwiki.wikispaces.com/**
>>>>>>> Dewey--culture%2C+experience<https://tw-curricuwiki.wikispaces.com/Dewey--culture%2C+experience>
>>>>>>> On Tue, 20 Sep 2011, Andy Blunden wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Herder, as I understand him, saw collective experience as an
>>>>>>> important
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> facet in the formation of the character of a people. I think part of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> problem is that "experience" has been such a contested term, Tony.
>>>>>>>> Generally
>>>>>>>> it has been co-opted by Empiricism, which is by its nature
>>>>>>>> individualist
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> by definition the philosophy of experiene, but Dewey used the word
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> formulating his view. But didn't he later say that he regretted
>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> word "experience" because it led to misunderstandings? Personally, I
>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>> /shared/ experience is the most powerful force in changing Zeitgeist
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> individual mninds en masse. You have an experience, and then you
>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> everyone else experienced the same thing and that event then becomes
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> central focus of your collaboration with other people. What could be
>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>> world-changing?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tony Whitson wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This query is prompted by a new book:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Peck, Don. Pinched: How the Great Recession Has Narrowed Our
>>>>>>>>> Futures
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> What We Can Do About It. New York: Crown Pub., 2011.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Pinched-****Great-Recession-Narrowed-**<http://www.amazon.com/Pinched-**Great-Recession-Narrowed-**>
>>>>>>>>> Futures/dp/0307886522<http://**www.amazon.com/Pinched-Great-**
>>>>>>>>> Recession-Narrowed-Futures/dp/**0307886522<http://www.amazon.com/Pinched-Great-Recession-Narrowed-Futures/dp/0307886522>
>>>>>>>>> /
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> in which the author looks more deeply into predictable
>>>>>>>>> ramifications of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> current economic situation than I have seen in other recent work.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Based on historical, sociological, and other literatures and modes
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> research, the author argues that what we're dealing with now is not
>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> wave in a recurring cycle. He predicts lasting changes that he
>>>>>>>>> expects
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> deeply impact different generational cohorts for decades to come.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> His argument is plausible, at least, to me. But it prompts me to
>>>>>>>>> wonder
>>>>>>>>> about experience that is really collective experience, as opposed
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> individual experience.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Exposing my ignorance, I realize that I can't think of literature
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> nature and structure of collective experience. It seems like there
>>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>>>> lot; but I can't think of it. It also seems like xmca is a likely
>>>>>>>>> place
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> find people who would be interested, and would know about such
>>>>>>>>> literature
>>>>>>>>> (although it's not on-topic in the current threads).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm thinking of my first earthquake experience last month as an
>>>>>>>>> example
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> an individual experience. It was totally unlike anything I'd ever
>>>>>>>>> experienced before, and it took me a few seconds to even recognize
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>> earthquake is what was happening (we don't have those in Delaware).
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>> my desk, at home, by myself when it happened.
>>>>>>>>> Of course, the experience was mediated after the fact from my
>>>>>>>>> sociocultural
>>>>>>>>> awareness of earthquakes. Still, I think it was an individual
>>>>>>>>> experience
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> the moment, compared with the collective experience that Don Peck
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> writing
>>>>>>>>> about -- an experience of events and developments over time, in
>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> experience of others participates, throughout, in the experience of
>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>> one.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am thinking that there might be something else that could be
>>>>>>>>> called
>>>>>>>>> "shared experience," intermediate between individual and collective
>>>>>>>>> experience.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Does this make any sense? Is this question of interest to anyone?
>>>>>>>>> Or am
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> naïvely wondering about things that have been well developed in the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> literature?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would be interested if anyone has ideas or references to share on
>>>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________****____________
>>>>>>>>> _____
>>>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>>>> <http://dss.ucsd.**edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------****----------------------------**--**
>>>>>>>> ------------
>>>>>>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>>>>>>> Joint Editor MCA: http://www.informaworld.com/**
>>>>>>>> smpp/title~db=all~content=****g932564744<http://www.**
>>>>>>>> informaworld.com/smpp/title%**7Edb=all%7Econtent=g932564744<http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/title%7Edb=all%7Econtent=g932564744>
>>>>>>>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>>>>>>>> Book:
>>>>>>>> http://www.brill.nl/default.****aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>>>>>>>> <http**://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?**partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________****____________
>>>>>>>> _____
>>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>>> <http://dss.ucsd.**edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>>> Tony Whitson
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> UD School of Education
>>>>>>> NEWARK DE 19716
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> twhitson@udel.edu
>>>>>>> ______________________________****_
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "those who fail to reread
>>>>>>> are obliged to read the same story everywhere"
>>>>>>> -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970)
>>>>>>> ______________________________**____________
>>>>>>> _____
>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________**____________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _____
>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Tony Whitson
>>>>> UD School of Education
>>>>> NEWARK DE 19716
>>>>>
>>>>> twhitson@udel.edu
>>>>> ______________________________**_
>>>>>
>>>>> "those who fail to reread
>>>>> are obliged to read the same story everywhere"
>>>>> -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________
>>>> _____
>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Joint Editor MCA:
>> http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/title~db=all~content=g932564744
>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857
>>
>> __________________________________________
>> _____
>> xmca mailing list
>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 18
>Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 06:10:53 -0700
>From: Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [xmca] Collective Experience vs. Individual Experience?
> (Help, anyone?)
>To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>Message-ID:
> <CAGaCnpx6k4kSDvTPYhiZ05gW5Fj=UL76yxApaV_+6QAVxFXEGg@mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>Bruce
>The notion of a "shared social space" as contrasted with "atomization" is a
>distinction that is critical for understanding "shared" experiences. The
>loss of a sense of the "public sphere" [sociology as a discipline was formed
>to explore this issue] in modernity [and the privileging of the private
>realm] has implications for our sense of who "we" are.
>Buber contrasted "empathy" [a sense of mirroring or being the same with]
>with "inclusion". Inclusion is a form of "we" that is a "compound" of two
>distinct differentiated persons and the "confirmation" experienced in their
>shared witnessing of an event. [not dissolved to union] AND the recognition
>that the event IS shared.
> There are multiple notions of "we" and "shared xperience" but issues of
>"temporality", and "place" or "space" must be considered in our notions of
>"collective we" "shared we" etc.
>
>Larry
>
>On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 4:12 AM, Bruce Robinson <bruce@brucerob.eu> wrote:
>
>> There seems to me to be an important distinction here that is blurred by
>> the
>> use of terms like 'shared' and 'collective'. On the one hand, there is the
>> experience of crowds, demonstrations, football matches, picket lines,
>> revolutions where the individual through direct participation in collective
>> activity feels part of something bigger than themselves and sheds part of
>> their individuality. Hence the feeling - very real - of being 'swept up in
>> the crowd' doing things you would not normally choose to do as a result of
>> directly feeling oneself part of a collective in action.
>>
>> This is described in detail from a CHAT perspective in Shah-Shuja's 2008
>> book 'Zones of Proletarian Development'.
>>
>> This transformation of subjectivity is distinct from having just shared the
>> same experience such as Tony's earthquake - experience is objectively shared
>> but not necessarily recognised as shared or recognised not acted upon
>> collectively.
>>
>> The distinction can be understood in Lefebvre's terms as the presence or
>> absence of a social space - not necessarily physical proximity but a medium
>> through which an acting collectivity can form. What is interesting is the
>> creation of such a space as transition from objectively given to
>> subjectively felt shared experience and collectivity.
>>
>> This can occur very rapidly as the simple result of knowing about others
>> who feel the same way. Andrew Woods (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/**
>> 02/02/opinion/02iht-edwoods02.**html?_r=1<http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/02/opinion/02iht-edwoods02.html?_r=1>)
>> refers to a psychological literature on 'pluralistic ignorance' and work of
>> sociologist Hubert O'Gorman. It can also change just as a result of having
>> information about what is going on.
>>
>> There are classic examples of this in the 'Arab Spring'. Many participants
>> speak of a decisive moment when they overcame their fear and decided to go
>> onto the streets as a result of knowing there were others prepared to do the
>> same. Thus apparent stability can dissolve very quickly once atomisation is
>> overcome and a social space comes about. So while talk of 'Twitter
>> revolutions' is obvious hype, there is a truth in that in CHAT terms the
>> mediating artefact enabled the creation of a collecive with a shared goal.
>>
>> Exactly how this happened including the subjective processes involved is
>> investigated in the two BBC programmes "How Facebook Changed the World: The
>> Arab Spring" |( http://www.bbc.co.uk/**programmes/b014l2ck<http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b014l2ck>) which traces the development from the self-immolation of the market trader
>> in Tunisia to the situation in July / August with lots of interviews with
>> key activists.
>>
>> Bruce Robinson
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Blunden" <ablunden@mira.net>
>> To: <ablunden@mira.net>; "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>> <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 6:09 AM
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Collective Experience vs. Individual Experience?
>> (Help,anyone?)
>>
>>
>>
>> Ah, I have to correct my error. What is more productive of a "we" than a
>>> shared experience is *doing* something together, a shared project.
>>> andy
>>>
>>> Andy Blunden wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think nothing makes a "we" more effectively than a shared experience,
>>>> and yes Mike, I take it that there is very much a temporal dimension
>>>> here. It could be as long as "the protest movement of the 60s" or "in the
>>>> war," or "growing up in xville," but archetypically, it is Tony's
>>>> earthquake - being there on that day.
>>>>
>>>> Andy
>>>>
>>>> mike cole wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That helps, tony. It sent me back to re-read Andy's note.
>>>>>
>>>>> Andy wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> You have an experience, and then you find that everyone else experienced
>>>>> the
>>>>> same thing and that event then becomes a central focus of your
>>>>> collaboration
>>>>> with other people.
>>>>>
>>>>> Re-reading reinforces my intuition of the time dimension. "In the
>>>>> instant"
>>>>> (which can fell likes hours and even be hours) it is quite localized in
>>>>> an
>>>>> individual life. In daily life it comes to known to be shared (we had a
>>>>> huge
>>>>> blackout here- similar sequence) and spreads out and across people. In
>>>>> the
>>>>> longer run it comes to have a kind of "precipitated" enduring presence
>>>>> that
>>>>> shades into collective memory.
>>>>>
>>>>> (I know, I am prone to threes, but something like this?)
>>>>> mike
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 9:04 PM, Tony Whitson <twhitson@udel.edu>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What I mean by "shared experience," as something between individual and
>>>>>> collective experience, is perfectly captured by how Andy characterizes
>>>>>> shared experience. I experience something & find out you and I have
>>>>>> both had
>>>>>> that experience in common, and it has the power Andy describes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I mean by collective experience is experience in which the
>>>>>> experience
>>>>>> of others participates in the experience of any one, in the course of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> experiencing. Temporal aspects are certainly crucial for this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A single mother who has lost her job in "the great recession" and who
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> worried sick -- literally, to the point of being unable to sleep, and
>>>>>> maybe
>>>>>> even vomiting from stress-induced gastro-whatever -- is experiencing
>>>>>> something somatically in a way that is particular to her own individual
>>>>>> body; but, at the same time, it is not just an individual experience,
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> my experience of the shaking that I realized only after a few seconds
>>>>>> must
>>>>>> be an earthquake. That mother's experience, through and through, is her
>>>>>> involvement in an experience that is irreducibly collective.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Herder is relevant, but not the same -- he's more about culturally
>>>>>> (nationally) accumulated shared experience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm wondering if there's something in the literature of social
>>>>>> phenomenology (Schutz, maybe?).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, Larry, it's more or less up to people on the list what they will
>>>>>> take
>>>>>> up, and what they will pass by.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 19 Sep 2011, mike cole wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tony- I am unclear about how your comments point to something between
>>>>>>
>>>>>> individual and collective experience.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, the term experience evokes misunderstandings, but have you tried
>>>>>>> culture recently as a problem free alternative? :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Might temporal aspects of "an experience" play a role in the
>>>>>>> individual:collective
>>>>>>> distinction? Would that be an avenue to distinguishing an intermediate
>>>>>>> process?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> mike
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 6:14 PM, Tony Whitson <twhitson@udel.edu>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks, Andy, that is helpful.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Dewey is posted here:
>>>>>>>> https://tw-curricuwiki.****wikis**paces.com/Dewey--**culture%**2C+**
>>>>>>>> experience<https://tw-**curric**uwiki.wikispaces.com/**<http://curricuwiki.wikispaces.com/**>
>>>>>>>> Dewey--culture%2C+experience<h**ttps://tw-curricuwiki.**
>>>>>>>> wikispaces.com/Dewey--culture%**2C+experience<https://tw-curricuwiki.wikispaces.com/Dewey--culture%2C+experience>
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 20 Sep 2011, Andy Blunden wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Herder, as I understand him, saw collective experience as an
>>>>>>>> important
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> facet in the formation of the character of a people. I think part of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> problem is that "experience" has been such a contested term, Tony.
>>>>>>>>> Generally
>>>>>>>>> it has been co-opted by Empiricism, which is by its nature
>>>>>>>>> individualist
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> by definition the philosophy of experiene, but Dewey used the word
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> formulating his view. But didn't he later say that he regretted
>>>>>>>>> using
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> word "experience" because it led to misunderstandings? Personally, I
>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>> /shared/ experience is the most powerful force in changing Zeitgeist
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> individual mninds en masse. You have an experience, and then you
>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> everyone else experienced the same thing and that event then becomes
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> central focus of your collaboration with other people. What could be
>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>> world-changing?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tony Whitson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This query is prompted by a new book:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Peck, Don. Pinched: How the Great Recession Has Narrowed Our
>>>>>>>>>> Futures
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> What We Can Do About It. New York: Crown Pub., 2011.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Pinched-******Great-Recession-Narrowed-****<http://www.amazon.com/Pinched-****Great-Recession-Narrowed-**>
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.amazon.com/**Pinched-**Great-Recession-**Narrowed-**<http://www.amazon.com/Pinched-**Great-Recession-Narrowed-**>
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> Futures/dp/0307886522<http://****www.amazon.com/Pinched-Great-****<http://www.amazon.com/Pinched-Great-**>
>>>>>>>>>> Recession-Narrowed-Futures/dp/****0307886522<http://www.**
>>>>>>>>>> amazon.com/Pinched-Great-**Recession-Narrowed-Futures/dp/**
>>>>>>>>>> 0307886522<http://www.amazon.com/Pinched-Great-Recession-Narrowed-Futures/dp/0307886522>
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> /
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> in which the author looks more deeply into predictable
>>>>>>>>>> ramifications of
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> current economic situation than I have seen in other recent work.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Based on historical, sociological, and other literatures and modes
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> research, the author argues that what we're dealing with now is not
>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> wave in a recurring cycle. He predicts lasting changes that he
>>>>>>>>>> expects
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> deeply impact different generational cohorts for decades to come.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> His argument is plausible, at least, to me. But it prompts me to
>>>>>>>>>> wonder
>>>>>>>>>> about experience that is really collective experience, as opposed
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> individual experience.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Exposing my ignorance, I realize that I can't think of literature
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> nature and structure of collective experience. It seems like there
>>>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>>>>> lot; but I can't think of it. It also seems like xmca is a likely
>>>>>>>>>> place
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> find people who would be interested, and would know about such
>>>>>>>>>> literature
>>>>>>>>>> (although it's not on-topic in the current threads).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm thinking of my first earthquake experience last month as an
>>>>>>>>>> example
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> an individual experience. It was totally unlike anything I'd ever
>>>>>>>>>> experienced before, and it took me a few seconds to even recognize
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>> earthquake is what was happening (we don't have those in Delaware).
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>> my desk, at home, by myself when it happened.
>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the experience was mediated after the fact from my
>>>>>>>>>> sociocultural
>>>>>>>>>> awareness of earthquakes. Still, I think it was an individual
>>>>>>>>>> experience
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> the moment, compared with the collective experience that Don Peck
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> writing
>>>>>>>>>> about -- an experience of events and developments over time, in
>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> experience of others participates, throughout, in the experience of
>>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>> one.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am thinking that there might be something else that could be
>>>>>>>>>> called
>>>>>>>>>> "shared experience," intermediate between individual and collective
>>>>>>>>>> experience.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Does this make any sense? Is this question of interest to anyone?
>>>>>>>>>> Or am
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> naÄ・vely wondering about things that have been well developed in the
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> literature?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I would be interested if anyone has ideas or references to share on
>>>>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________******____________
>>>>>>>>>> _____
>>>>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/******listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>>>>> <http://dss.**ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/**xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> <http://dss.ucsd.**edu/**mailman/listinfo/xmca<http://**
>>>>>>>>>> dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/**xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------******--------------------------**
>>>>>>>>> --**--**
>>>>>>>>> ------------
>>>>>>>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>>>>>>>> Joint Editor MCA: http://www.informaworld.com/**
>>>>>>>>> smpp/title~db=all~content=******g932564744<http://www.**
>>>>>>>>> informaworld.com/smpp/title%****7Edb=all%7Econtent=g932564744<**
>>>>>>>>> http://www.informaworld.com/**smpp/title%7Edb=all%7Econtent=**
>>>>>>>>> g932564744<http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/title~db=all~content=g932564744>
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>>>>>>>>> Book:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.brill.nl/default.******aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.****aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>>>>>>>>> <ht**tp://www.brill.nl/default.****aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> <http**://www.brill.nl/**default.aspx?**partid=227&pid=**34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?**partid=227&pid=34857>
>>>>>>>>> <http://www.brill.nl/**default.aspx?partid=227&pid=**34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________******____________
>>>>>>>>> _____
>>>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/******listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>>>> <http://dss.**ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/**xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> <http://dss.ucsd.**edu/**mailman/listinfo/xmca<http://**
>>>>>>>>> dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/**xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> Tony Whitson
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> UD School of Education
>>>>>>>> NEWARK DE 19716
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> twhitson@udel.edu
>>>>>>>> ______________________________******_
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "those who fail to reread
>>>>>>>> are obliged to read the same story everywhere"
>>>>>>>> -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970)
>>>>>>>> ______________________________****____________
>>>>>>>> _____
>>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>>> <http://dss.ucsd.**edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________****____________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _____
>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>> <http://dss.ucsd.**edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tony Whitson
>>>>>> UD School of Education
>>>>>> NEWARK DE 19716
>>>>>>
>>>>>> twhitson@udel.edu
>>>>>> ______________________________****_
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "those who fail to reread
>>>>>> are obliged to read the same story everywhere"
>>>>>> -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________**____________
>>>>> _____
>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
>>> ------------
>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>> Joint Editor MCA:
>>> http://www.informaworld.com/**smpp/title~db=all~content=**g932564744<http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/title~db=all~content=g932564744>
>>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>>>
>>> ______________________________**____________
>>> _____
>>> xmca mailing list
>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________**____________
>>
>> _____
>> xmca mailing list
>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>xmca mailing list
>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
>End of xmca Digest, Vol 76, Issue 20
>************************************
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