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Re: [xmca] Help With Russian (Again!)
Many thanks, Anton! It's a very great resource, and it contains priceless information for our upcoming Korean edition of Tool and Sign (e.g. the references, where Luria's co-authorship of Tool and Sign is restored.)
I know that you and Rene Van der Veer consider the 1934 edition to be authorized. Meccaci does too, and your three names certainly carry a lot of weight.
However, in doing the Korean edition, we decided that BOTH the 1934 edition AND the 1956/1982 Russian versions had to be considered non-authorial in different ways.
The reasons for thinking the later versions non authorial are many and I won't go over them again. But I think that the 1934 edition is not authorial too.
First of all, it came out more than six months after the author's death. It was apparently put in shape by Kolbanovsky and Smekhova, or perhaps by Zankov and Schif, or maybe by some combination of the four (accounts differ). Certainly Kolbanovsky made changes to the text, and there is no way to know how many and exactly where.
Secondly, even if there had been no changes to it by the hands of others, Vygotsky himself probably did not want it the way that it actually was when it was printed. Vygotsky worked in a hurry and did not really manage to finish, much less edit. Over half the book was written between March and June when he died, and there are many signs that a lot of it was simply dictated, without any re-reading, to a family friend who was not a psychologist.
Still, we felt that the 1934 TEXT probably stood closest to Vygotsky's actual intentions. So our decision was that we would use the text of the 1934 edition, but we would use the more reader-friendly SECTIONS and PARAGRAPHING of the later editions. (I can't believe Vygotsky really intended the whole of the first chapter to be two massive paragraphs!)
This means that our Korean edition is not strictly speaking based on any actual Ur-text, and it doesn't exactly correspond to any extant translation (all of which do have some form of non-authorial Ur-text). But we did footnote all this, so that the 1934 edition is at least mentally retrievable by the reader.
David Kellogg
Hankuk University of Foreign Studies
GS TESOL.
--- On Sat, 8/27/11, Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [xmca] Help With Russian (Again!)
To: "David Kellogg" <vaughndogblack@yahoo.com>, "Activity eXtended Mind, Culture" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
Date: Saturday, August 27, 2011, 9:20 AM
To whom it may concern.
Тhe original text of Myshlenie i rech' aka Thinking and speech (1934). Torrent. The link is here: http://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2035187 . Enjoy.
AY
From: David Kellogg <vaughndogblack@yahoo.com>
To: Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>; Culture ActivityeXtended Mind <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 11:13:07 PM
Subject: Re: [xmca] Help With Russian (Again!)
Thanks, Anton. That was my feeling too. We did use the 1934 text (I think). It's this one:
http://yanko.lib.ru/books/psycho/vugotskiy-psc_razv_chel-7-myshlenie_i_rech.pdf
We also used the Labirinth 2005 edition, which is based on the 1934 edition.]
You and van der Veer say in your article that there's a scanned facsimile of the original 1934 edition available for streaming on line somewhere. Could you possibly post the link?
David Kellogg
Hankuk University of Foreign Studies
GS-TESOL
--- On Fri, 8/26/11, Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [xmca] Help With Russian (Again!)
To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
Date: Friday, August 26, 2011, 7:19 PM
My first reaction: teh author refers to the first level out of three, i.e. elementary schoolchildren.
In addition, a question: What text --i.e. what edition of the text --of Vygotsky's book did you use for your translation? This was not the edition of 1934, was it?
Anton
________________________________
From: David Kellogg <vaughndogblack@yahoo.com>
To: xmca <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 9:56:40 PM
Subject: [xmca] Help With Russian (Again!)
Dear xmca Russophones:
We need some help over here in Korea. We're submitting a list of corrections for the second edition of our Korean translation of "Thinking and Speech" (which, I am pleased to say, sold out several months ahead of schedule, and remains on the best seller lists for education, arts and humanities, and social sciences).
For the most part, the corrections are minor, and we've been able to agree. But we've got a problem with the fourth paragraph of the first section of Chapter Six. Vygotsky has this:
"В качестве вспомогательных приемов выступило наблюдение на специально организованных уроках, учет знаний и т.д. Объект изучения — школьники I ступени. "
We've got two possible interpretations. One is that this refers to school children in primary education, and therefore it includes the second graders and fourth graders in Schif's study. But the other is that it refers to FIRST graders, and therefore does NOT refer to the second graders and fourth graders in Schif's study.
What do you think?
David Kellogg
Hankuk University of Foreign Studies
Graduate School of TESOL
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