Re: [xmca] "Inner Form" of Word, Symmetry, Ivanov Bateson?

[Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>]

On 31 May 2011 13:09, christine schweighart <schweighartgate@hotmail.com>wrote:

Hi Christine,

My comments are below.


> I’d like to clarify my thoughts on  how there can be separation of higher
> psychological function from a biological perspective. Recalling David
> Kellogg’
> meaning and sense of his apple example, sensuous experiencing of an apple
> unfolds in relation to another sensual source –whatever is experienced on
> the bringing
> forth of meaning in coordinating action with the word apple. Immanence of
> these
> senses in flux in inner form seems fluid, but also physiological.
>

Yes, or material.


> [...]
>
> How does this relate to inner form and word meaning?
> Well it might be useful as metaphor of a fluid model – one of structural
> drift.
> Drift doesn’t carry the weight of pathway  or
> path dependence (as how the set of decisions faced for any
> given circumstance is limited by the decisions made in the past, even
> though
> past circumstances may no longer be relevant).
> This seems particularly relevant going back to Jay Lemke’s call for the
> particular and what is taken forward to the next particular case.
>

Sounds v. much like where I'm coming from.  I'm not sure I'd call it fluid
though.  I believe there is a definite pattern which the term 'fluid' seems
to elude.

 [...]

The review was written by István Hargittai, Leonardo, Volume 41, Number 2,
> April 2008,
> pp. 185-187 (Review)
>
> Who took issue with the meaning of
> dissymmetry used by Darvas , following a Shubinov use quoted below (
> although
> in doing this the overall contribution of work put forward in  Darvas’ book
> might not be fairly evaluated, I
> don’t know):


[...]

> In Curie’s
> original words: “Dissymmetry creates the phenomenon” (“C’est la dissymétrie
> qui crée le phénomène”) [2].
>
>
Possibly in tune with the notion of rhythm as "the conflict between meter
and words", Psychology of Art, page 219.

That
> is, a phenomenon exists and is observable due to dissymmetry, due to the
> absence of some symmetry elements from the system."
>



> Darvas, on p14 if you have access to the e-book ,made observations about
> how in natural formations in plants and animals there isn't a perfect
> symmetry, that quality of asymmetry contributed to a sense of harmony and
> beauty. This seems to have something to contribute to the discussion of
> individual difference, and rather than it following a pathway ( dependence)
> to insecurity,to  value and receive difference as a developmental source. It
> would have many more forms than in verbal thought alone and is embodied
> difference including all forms of expression and visual
> re-presentationssensation, it seems to me. I even wonder how aesthetics does
> interplay in physiological function in a non-metaphoric way., which is why I
> struggle to see a complete separation of biological and  sociohistorical.
>

The notion of contradiction that Vygotsky uses in the Psychology of Art may
be appropriate.  Personally, I see plenty of alignment with godel-derived
representations, which is a healthy sign.

Huw
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