Re: [xmca] Transhistorical or embodied

[Martin Packer <packer@duq.edu>]

OK, but Hardcastle notes the similarities between LSV's position on language and thought and texts by von Humboldt.

 Hardcastle, John(2009). Vygotsky's Enlightenment precursors. Educational Review, 61:2,181 — 195

And MacDonald points out that LSV attended Shpet's lectures on von Humboldt's treatment of the topic of inner form.

 MacDonald, Paul (2000) Phenomenological factors in Vygotsky's mature psychology.  History of the Human Sciences; 13; 69

I doubt if we can single out one real source among these various influences.

Martin

On May 1, 2011, at 7:25 PM, David Kellogg wrote:

> Martin: 
>  
> What makes me think that Vygotsky got "inner form" from Potebnya?
>  
> Well, first of all, Yaroshevsky says so. On p. 36 he says that Vygotsky had read Potebnya by age 17 and that his Humboldtian ideas on inner and outer form derive from there (p. 77). Since the original was published in 1862 and Vygotsky was preturnaturally erudite in this field, it seems likely, although Yaroshevsky does not offer any evidence.
>  
> Yaroshevsky, M. (1989). Lev Vygotsky. Moscow: Progress.
>  
> Secondly, Zinchenko says so. On p. 232 of his article in the Cambridge Companion, he says that Vygotsky got the idea from Potebnya and not from von Humboldt or Shpet. (But Zinchenko also says that the ref on p. 31 of Psychology of Art is Vygotsky's ONLY ref to to "inner form" and we know that's not true.)
>  
> Zinchenko, V.P. (2007) Thought and Word: The approaches of L.S. Vygotsky and G.G. Spet. In Cambridge Companion to Vygotsky. Cambridge: CUP.
>  
> Thirdly, Thomas Seifrid says, on p. 99 of "The Word Made Self" that Potebnia got the distinction from Humboldt but that von Humboldt, always the anthropological linguist, applied it to sociogenetic changes in the language as a whole, while Potebnia, the philologist, applied it to the distinction between phoneme (outer form) and sememe (inner form). And that's how Vygotsky uses it, no?
>  
> Seifrid, T. (2005 ) The Word Made Self: Russian writings on language 1860-1930. Ithaca: Cornell University Press.
>  
> David Kellogg
> Seoul National University Press
>  
>  
> 
> --- On Sun, 5/1/11, Martin Packer <packer@duq.edu> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Martin Packer <packer@duq.edu>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Transhistorical or embodied
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Date: Sunday, May 1, 2011, 8:08 AM
> 
> 
> On May 1, 2011, at 7:26 AM, David Kellogg wrote:
> 
>> It turns out that Potebnia was the real source of Vygotsky's ideas about "inner form".
> 
> What leads you to this conclusion, David?
> 
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