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RES: [xmca] Teresa in Ecstasy
David, I have a student who works as an actor and is doing a work on aesthetics. I forward your notes to him?
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Joao Batista Martins
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-----Mensagem original-----
De: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] Em nome de David Kellogg
Enviada em: domingo, 6 de março de 2011 20:43
Para: Culture ActivityeXtended Mind
Assunto: Re: [xmca] Teresa in Ecstasy
Dear Carol:
A year ago there was a rather uncomfortable exchange about the "Teaching About the Emotions" between Achilles and Andy and Dot Robbins (see 24 March 2010). I gather it's not legal to circulate this material on the Net.
But I've been reading it and I'm very happy to circulate my notes. They're a bit LONG (67 pages) but there's a kind of "executive summary" at the beginning, and then there's a section summary at the beginning of each section. Cute pictures too!
(You will see that Saint Teresa of Avila really does put in an appearance and plays a not insignifcant role in Vygotsky's argument about why emotions can't be reduced to sensations.)
Actually, Carol, my Russian is probably no better than yours, and certainly not as good as Achilles or Mike. What I do is just take the Russian and Babelfish it and then go over it with the help of a translation from French or Italian (the English is worthless for reasons I will get to) or a friendly Russian speaking teacher.
The weird thing is that sometimes when I do that I get something suspiciously close to the "translation" in Volume Six! So I think that some of the translators in the Collected Works project were really just doing the same thing, only without much understanding. And that accounts for the poor quality of the translations.
And that's why we really have to start over. But you will find that once you learn Cyrllic that a lot of familiar words start jumping out at you, and then you can just ignore the Byzantine grammar and do a kind of very rough and ready lexical translation.
In a funny way, that's what this manuscript (and also Psych of Art, and even Martin's beloved "Crisis") is about. There's the VERY atomistic "explanatory" (or "from below") account of psychology offered by physiology. And then there's this VERY "descriptivist" (or "from above") account of psychology offered by the humanities.
The machine translation is "from below". My notes are "from above". And you and me and Vygotsky are the mere mortals stuck in the middle.
David Kellogg
Seoul National University of Education
--- On Sun, 3/6/11, Carol Macdonald <carolmacdon@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Carol Macdonald <carolmacdon@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [xmca] Teresa in Ecstasy
To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
Date: Sunday, March 6, 2011, 1:29 AM
David
I don't think this is fair to the rest of us mere mortals. Why not attempt a fair translation for us if you can read the Russian, or even just the implications.
Carol
2011/3/6 David Kellogg <vaughndogblack@yahoo.com>
>
>
>
>
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> Vygotsky takes the idea from Dilthey and Scheler. But he certainly
> approves of it.
>
> See Chapter 19 of the Teaching About the Emotions:
> Historical-Psychological Studies, in Volume Six of the Collected
> Works, especially paragraph 6 and paragraph 20.
>
> The translation is pretty awful, so here's the Russian.
>
>
> <<Единообразие, составляющее главный предмет психологии нашего века,
> относится к формулам внутреннего процесса. Могучая по содержанию
> действительность душевной жизни выходит за пределы этой психологии. В
> творениях поэтов, в размышлениях о жизни, высказанных великими
> писателями, как Сенека, Марк Аврелий, Блаженный Августин, Макиавелли,
> Монтень, Паскаль, заключено такое понимание человека во всей его
> действительности, что всякая объяснительная психология остается далеко позади>> (там же, с. 18).
>
>
>
>
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> В жизни чувств описательная психология находит самый глубокий и живой
> объект. <<Тут мы видим перед собой подлинный центр душевной жизни.
> Поэзия всех времен находит здесь свои объекты. Интересы человечества
> постоянно обращены в сторону жизни чувств. Счастье и несчастье
> человеческого существования находятся в зависимости от нее, поэтому-то
> психология XVII в., глубокомысленно направившая свое внимание на
> содержание душевной жизни, и сосредоточилась на учении о чувственных
> состояниях - ибо это и были ее
> аффекты>> (В. Дильтей,
> 1924, с. 56).
>
> David Kellogg
> Seoul National University of Education
>
> --- On Sat, 3/5/11, Tony Whitson <twhitson@UDel.Edu> wrote:
>
>
> From: Tony Whitson <twhitson@UDel.Edu>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Teresa in Ecstasy
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Date: Saturday, March 5, 2011, 5:33 PM
>
>
> On Tue, 1 Mar 2011, David Kellogg wrote:
>
> > Vygotsky does say that the real purpose of descriptive psychology is
> > to
> provide a scientific road down the same paths blazed by poets,
> painters, playwrights and novelists. But he should have added at least one sculptor!
>
> Keen idea!
>
> Can someone share the citation wherre I could find that statement by
> Vygotsky?
>
> Thanks.
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