Thanks, Andy. I have read that section and others, and have not yet
found any place where I recognize Lenin making the point Vygotsky
attributes to him - "that contrasting the mental with the physical is
absolutely necessary within the strict confines of the statement of our
epistemological goals, but that beyond these confines such a contrast
would be a gross mistake."
Below is the larger quote again. I think Vygotsky had good reason to
describe his proposal as novel. I like it, but it has me thinking about
stuff, such as the innovative way he is relating the ontological,
epistemological, and psychological - and whether Lenin or other
classical Marxists actually said these specific things about the mental
and physical, as Vygotsky suggests. I would be very happy to be pointed
to where. I am not seeing this point about the "gross mistake" brought
up in the Ilyenkov or Bakhurst studies of Lenin's book, either. But
maybe I am looking right at the relevant passage in this book - and just
not seeing it.
Vygotsky:
"Dialectical psychology's whole uniqueness precisely resides in the
attempt to define the subject matter of its study in a completely novel
way. This subject matter is the integral process of behavior which is
characterized by the fact that it has its mental and its physiological
side. [Dialectical] psychology studies it as a unitary and integral
process and only in this way tries to find a way out of the blind alley
that was created [by the old psychology]. We remind you here of the
warning that Lenin [1909/1984, p 143] gave in his book "Materialism and
empiriocriticism" against the incorrect understanding of this formula.
He said that contrasting the mental with the physical is absolutely
necessary within the strict confines of the statement of our
epistemological goals, but that beyond these confines such a contrast
would be a gross mistake.
"It is indeed a methodological difficulty of psychology that its
viewpoint is a genuinely scientific, ontological one and that here this
contrast would be a mistake. Whereas in epistemological analysis we must
strictly oppose sensation and object, we must not oppose the mental and
physiological processes in psychological analysis."
- Steve
On Jul 20, 2010, at 10:38 PM, Andy Blunden wrote:
The Russian text is available at
http://www.psylib.ukrweb.net/books/lenin01/index.htm
I think the English edition of v. 14 of LCW has similar page
numbering, which would mean you are looking at Chapter 3, subsection
1. "What is matter?"
English translation is here:
http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1908/mec/three1.htm
I can't find an exact copy for that form of words, Steve, but Lenin
makes the same point over and over and over and over and over and over
and ... as Lenin was wont to.
Andy
Steve Gabosch wrote:
Thanks, Andy. Have been looking in those, and other sections, but no
luck yet.
It would help me a lot to know for sure what part of the Russian
online version corresponds to the page Vygotsky's publishers refer to
in the 1984 Russian edition - page 143 - which I could translate on
google or babelfish - and then find in English.
- Steve
On Jul 20, 2010, at 7:05 PM, Andy Blunden wrote:
Actually, maybe it's this one:
http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1908/mec/four8.htm
andy
Andy Blunden wrote:
It's gotta be somewhere in here Steve:
http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1908/mec/five2.htm
Andy
_______________________________________________
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
Videos: http://vimeo.com/user3478333/videos
Book: http://www.brill.nl/scss
_______________________________________________
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
_______________________________________________
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca