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RE: [xmca] about emotions
That dichotomy is the way of thinking against Vygotsky and Chabrier were
at that time.
Achilles.
> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> Subject: RE: [xmca] about emotions
> From: ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org
> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:27:20 -0600
>
> As I was reading the summary referenced below I was struck by the
> dichotomy of emotions and society. So much so that they can instigate an
> interruption to a person's participation in society. Perhaps emotions are
> societies nemesis?
>
> what do other's think?
>
>
> eric
>
>
>
>
> ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org
> Sent by: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> 11/25/2009 09:30 AM
> Please respond to "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>
>
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> cc:
> Subject: RE: [xmca] about emotions
>
>
> I thought this was a well done review of the philosophy of emotion:
> http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/emotion/
>
>
>
>
>
> Achilles Delari Junior <achilles_delari@hotmail.com>
> Sent by: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> 11/25/2009 12:36 AM
> Please respond to "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>
>
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> cc:
> Subject: RE: [xmca] Vygotsky and J. F. Chabrier - about
> emotions
>
>
>
> Oh, sure, this a problem, above all, a problem not only a postulate.
> I don't know about Winnicott, but human objects have a meaning too,
> this semiotic dimension of an object, by any process is converted from
> social relations to the social structure of personality... Vygotsky
> emphasizes ideological process in human emotion constitutions, for
> instance the difference between cellos in the Mussulman culture and
> in occidental culture... And even historical transformations in our way
> to feel something... including love... This seems to be an interesting
> approach, because seems to trace a kind of anthropological view to
> the question. Not only our tools, actions and signs historically
> developed,
> but our emotions too, in a systemic and inter-functional set. These
> are some ideas that pass through me reading this chapter. But most
> part of time Vygotsky is criticizing Descartes, James/Lange, Freud,
> Scheler/Lotze... and his own affirmative position is only announced.
> Winnicott can be a good contribution, I don´t know, how important
> is the culture and the history to Winniccot? These transitional objetcs
> chances only in form retaining the unconscious contends? Or the un-
> conscious contends can change ideologically, culturally and historically?
> How constitutional can be history, culture and ideology in human feelings?
> The sample of Alighieri is very interesting... How many social process
> are important in love, for instance... not immediated ones, has you say,
> but mediated process... Its complex, Vygotsky refuses the "peripheral
> hypothesis, than the central, properly human, neuro-functional formations
> will take a decisive role em the entire process... I don´t now, I only
> have a problem, not sufficiently organized of course. I had read about
> "perezhivanie" and its metodologycal role as "dynamic unit"... and
> emotions
> are close, even they are not the same.
>
> Thank you, Andy.
> Best wishes.
> Achilles.
>
> > Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:09:03 +1100
> > From: ablunden@mira.net
> > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] Vygotsky and J. F. Chabrier - about emotions
> >
> > Achilles, this is a fascinating problem, isn't it? It's
> > kinda way out of my area, but can I just offer a couple of
> > innane observations from my own remote point of view?
> >
> > 1. We should think of the body as an artifact which as such
> > plays the same mediating role in consciousness as do other
> > artifacts. We have a thought, our stomach tenses up, we feel
> > that tension in the stomach. Thus the emotional reaction in
> > our guts mediates our feeling about the thought. etc.
> >
> > 2. Donald Winnicott's current of psychoanalysis for all its
> > faults brings Freud much closer to CHAT by his study of
> > (transitional) objects which act as mediating elements for
> > us, bearers of affect and association. Same kind of thing as
> > 1., but the artifact is external to the body, but has
> > pesonal meaning.
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > Achilles Delari Junior wrote:
> > > Some quotes, from Vygotsky
> > >
> > >
> > > Little attention has been given to this aspect of the problem because
> the problem
> > > of man did not at all arise before contemporary psychology. But from
> the very
> > > beginning, even the authors of the theory and their critics understood
>
> that in the
> > > visceral hypothesis, they were speaking in essence of the animal
> nature of human
> > > emotions. We will cite Chabrier, who advanced this idea in the most
> complete form.
> > > Chabrier says that with this problem, we penetrate into the heart of
> the problem
> > > and touch on the major objection that rises against the peripheral
> theory. When
> > > we are speaking about instincts, we have before us an absolutely and
> invariably
> > > established mechanism, which is activated automatically as soon as an
> appropriate
> > > stimulation appears. It is possible that this is true also with
> respect to the primitive
> > > emotions of the child, but it cannot be the same with respect to the
> usual emotions
> > > of adults. (Vygotsky, 1999, p. 206)
> > >
> > > Chabrier completely justifiably refers to the fact that a feeling of
> hunger, usually
> > > considered in the group of lower bodily feelings in civilized man, is
> already a
> > > fine feeling from the point of view of the nomenclature of James, that
>
> the simple
> > > need of food can acquire a religious sense when it leads to the
> appearance of a
> > > symbolic rite of mystical communication between man and God. And
> conversely,
> > > a religious feeling, usually considered as a purely spiritual emotion,
>
> in pious cannibals
> > > bringing human sacrifices to the gods, can scarcely he referred to the
>
> group
> > > of higher emotions. Consequently, there is no emotion that by nature
> would be
> > > independent of the body and not connected with it. James' book, The
> VrJrieties of
> > > Religious Experience, shows incontrovertibly the extent to which
> higher feelings are
> > > closely connected with all the fibers of our body. (Vygotsky, 1999, p.
>
> 207)
> > >
> > >
> > > Separating emotions from the development of a system of ideas and
> establishing
> > > their dependence exclusively on organic structures, James inevitably
> comes
> > > to the fatalistic conception of emotions which encompasses animals and
>
> man
> > > equally. The serious differences that human emotions display depending
>
> on the
> > > era, the degree of civilization, the difference between mystical
> adoration of a knight
> > > for his lady and the noble gallantry of the seventeenth century,
> remain unexplained
> > > from the point of view of this theory. Chabrier says, if we imagine
> the infinitely
> > > rich nature of the poorest emotion, if we pay less attention to the
> imaginary psychology
> > > of single-celled organisms than to the remarkable analysis of
> novelists and
> > > writers, if we simply make use of valuable data supplied by
> observations of people
> > > around us, we cannot but admit the complete failure of the peripheral
> theory. Actually,
> > > it is impossible to admit that simple perception of a female
> silhouette automatically
> > > evoked an endless series of organic reactions of which could be born
> love
> > > such as the love of Dante for Beatrice if we do not previously assume
> the whole
> > > ensemble of theological, political, esthetic, and scientific ideas
> that comprised the
> > > consciousness of the genius, AJighieri. (Vygosky, 1999, p. 207)
> > >
> > >
> > > I have atached before, to you see something, but perhaps with these
> direct quotes
> > > you can tell me more about... Mainlly the question about historical,
> cultural ideological
> > > constitution of human emotions... If the development of this could not
>
> be looking for
> > > in Past, any suggestions about clues in present and future are very
> welcome too.
> > >
> > > Thank you very much.
> > > Achilles
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> From: achilles_delari@hotmail.com
> > >> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > >> Subject: RE: [xmca] Vygotsky and J. F. Chabrier - about emotions
> > >> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:00:07 +0000
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Oh, incredible! Thank you very much. You are a "power plant",
> > >> always working.
> > >>
> > >> Oh, "thick" have many meanings, I see. But, if it is about number
> > >> of pages, there are 157 pages.... according my Google sources...
> > >>
> > >> Then you see, please, what must I do to pay the order.
> > >>
> > >> Muito obrigado.
> > >> Achilles.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:03:23 -0800
> > >>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Vygotsky and J. F. Chabrier - about emotions
> > >>> From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > >>> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > >>> CC: VEER@fsw.leidenuniv.nl
> > >>>
> > >>> Achilles!!
> > >>>
> > >>> Voila!! The book is in library at UC Berkeley. I have ordered it.
> Lets see
> > >>> how thick it is.
> > >>> :-)
> > >>> mike
> > >>>
> > >>> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 2:49 PM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> I cannot find a thing, Achilles.
> > >>>> Lets see if we can elicit some help.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Rene-- Do you know of this work? Is it of enduring signicance?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> mike
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 3:01 AM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > >>>> achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Hi XMCA,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> How are you? I wish fine.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I was studding the Vygotsky's "Teaching about emotions"
> > >>>>> and at the chapter 18 (see atached) I find very interesting
> > >>>>> mentions to Chabrier - (I guess Joseph François Chabrier that
> > >>>>> wrote "Les émotions et les états organiques" in 1911). The
> > >>>>> contributions from Chabrier are linked with Vygotsky's concerns
> > >>>>> for criticize dualistic views about emotions, and to understand
> > >>>>> actual relations between emotions and
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> - consciousness
> > >>>>> - culture
> > >>>>> - ideology
> > >>>>> - history
> > >>>>> - and personality
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I search a lot for Chabrier, but there was practically nothing.
> > >>>>> Nothing in Amazon, nothing in Google books. And French Libraries
> > >>>>> don't send to Brazil.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Somebody have any suggestion, please? Any useful kind of service
> > >>>>> to legally obtain the book? Some kind of "East View" to French
> resources?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Thank you very much.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Achilles
> > >>>>> from Brazil.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> _________________________________________________________________
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> > --
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
> > Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev, Meshcheryakov,
> > Ilyenkov $20 ea
> >
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