Re: FW: [xmca] Arne Raeithel's "genealogy"

[mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>]

Nice additions.
Substantively, the absence of the French sociological school seems to me a
real
issue.
mike

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 6:07 PM, David H Kirshner <dkirsh@lsu.edu> wrote:

> Very cool.
> Thanks Jonas, thanks Andy.
> David
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> Behalf Of Andy Blunden
> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 5:47 PM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: FW: [xmca] Arne Raeithel's "genealogy"
>
> Jonas, The technical manager at marxists.org, has stepped in
> and written some Javascript for us, and thanks to Bruce
> Jones who has loaded the half-dozen successive versions of
> this thing, we now have a diagram with longlasting "tool
> tip" explanations for each writer, as well as a Wikipedia link:
>
>   http://lchc.ucsd.edu/mca/Paper/Genealogy-CHAT.htm
>
> If anyone wants to use this in their teaching, but doesn't
> want to swallow my version of history, it is quite easy to
> change the text in the boxes and if you can take the trouble
> the whole thing is easily modified to taste. If anyone wants
> to do that I am happy to advise. ...
>
> Andy
>
> Andy Blunden wrote:
> > You are quite correct, Juha. Since I have been browsing the advice pages
> > I have been told exactly what you say. Also, people using FireFox will
> > not see it at all. I have sent Bruce a version using the title=tag
> > instead which should fix that. The various Javascript fixes that people
> > suggest are really complicated, definitely for experts only, so at this
> > point, we will have to put up with it. Of course, if you click the name,
> > you get the full wikipedia story.
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > http://lchc.ucsd.edu/mca/Paper/Genealogy-CHAT.htm
> >
> >
> > Juha Siltala wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> There is no way to control the timeout that I'm aware of. I suppose the
> >> information should probably be displayed in a javascript popup or
> >> something like that.
> >>
> >> Using the image ALT text in this way is actually a case of creative
> >> misuse of a standard HTML accessibility feature: ALT text was originally
> >> designed to be shown *instead* of the image for those who are using a
> >> non-graphical browsers such as Lynx, not for showing extra information.
> >> In the recent years, the most common non-standard use for ALT text has
> >> been many webcomic artists' habit of inserting an extra joke in it -
> >> check out the wonderful XKCD for example, at http://xkcd.com/ .
> >>
> >> Another case of users putting technology into uses never envisioned by
> >> its designers I guess. :-)
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> JS
> >>
> >> On Wed, 2009-11-11 at 18:42 -0600, David H Kirshner wrote:
> >>> Andy, I replied off-line, but your response was intended for on-line,
> so
> >>> I'm forwarding to the list. ...David
> >>>
> >>> David H Kirshner wrote:
> >>>> Much appreciate the graphic, Andy.
> >>>> Unfortunately the accompanying text lingers for only a few seconds
> >>>> before needing to be refreshed by moving cursor out of and back into
> >>>> box. Is this something that can be controlled on your end?
> >>> Andy replied: Yes, very annoying, isn't it David. I have searched
> >>> around the internet, but so far I haven't found any way of
> >>> controlling this time. Any HTML or Java whizzkids out there?
> >>> Andy
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>              Andy Blunden
> >>>>
> >>>>              <ablunden@mira.ne
> >>>>
> >>>>              t>
> >>>> To              Sent by:                  "eXtended Mind, Culture,
> >>>> Activity"               xmca-bounces@webe         <
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >>>>
> >>>>              r.ucsd.edu
> >>>> cc
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Subject              11/11/2009 01:18          Re: [xmca] Arne
> >>>> Raeithel's
> >>>>
> >>>>              AM                        "genealogy"
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>              Please respond to
> >>>>
> >>>>              ablunden@mira.net
> >>>>
> >>>>              ; Please respond
> >>>>
> >>>>                     to
> >>>>
> >>>>               "eXtended Mind,
> >>>>
> >>>>                  Culture,
> >>>>
> >>>>                  Activity"
> >>>>
> >>>>              <xmca@weber.ucsd.
> >>>>
> >>>>                    edu>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>    http://lchc.ucsd.edu/mca/Paper/Genealogy-CHAT.htm
> >>>>
> >>>> I replaced the PDF with an HTML version, which gives you
> >>>> little 50-word summaries of what each contributed to CHAT
> >>>> (when you hover) and a link to their Wikipedia page (when
> >>>> you click).
> >>>>
> >>>> Andy
> >>>>
> >>>> Martin Packer wrote:
> >>>>> Andy, thinking on this a bit further, it seems to me that these
> >>>> diagrams
> >>>>> are trying to do two different things at the same time. One is to
> >>>>> provide helpful contextual information to anyone reading LSV's texts.
> >>>> I
> >>>>> think this itself is a valuable enterprise, one that compensates a
> >>>>> little for the minimal teaching of the history of the discipline in
> >>>>> psychology, at least. A diagram serving this purpose need go no
> >>>> further
> >>>>> towards the present than the end of Vygotsky's life. And for this the
> >>>>> lines to and from Vygotsky himself would be redundant; he would be
> >>>>> connected to everyone.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A second task, and a distinct one in my view, would be a diagram
> >>>>> indicating forms of, and influences on, CHAT today. Here people like
> >>>>> Helmholtz and Fichte would, I think, not play a role - their
> >>> influence
> >>>>> would be entirely mediated by LSV. And such a diagram would be more
> >>>>> detailed about the present: for example, the last row of your diagram
> >>>> is
> >>>>> almost exclusively people working in the US; it would be helpful to
> >>>> see
> >>>>> here Scandinavian, German, British, etc. schools of CHAT.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm not volunteering you for the work (nor do I have time to do it
> >>>>> myself), just trying to think through the role of this kind of
> >>>>> representational reconstruction of intellectual history.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Martin
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Nov 9, 2009, at 12:18 AM, Andy Blunden wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Yes, it is mind-boggling. Probably better for people to produce a
> >>>>>> multiplicity of different perspectives, than try to produce a master
> >>>>>> view. There are so many angles!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Lewin is interesting. Not only was he close to the Frankfurt School,
> >>>>>> but he also worked with Vygotsky, and I suspect this is where
> >>>> Vygotsky
> >>>>>> got a lot of his Hegel from.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Andy
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Martin Packer wrote:
> >>>>>>> Andy, I think the map is interesting and useful. But how about
> >>> this.
> >>>>>>> I was exploring further on the virtual library that I mentioned in
> >>> a
> >>>>>>> prior message. It turns out there's quite a lot there in English,
> >>>> not
> >>>>>>> only German. I had been enjoying myself browsing through scans of
> >>>> the
> >>>>>>> papers of Carl Stumpf, who was teacher of both Kurt Lewin and
> >>> Edmund
> >>>>>>> Husserl. Teacher-student seems to me one important connection
> >>>> between
> >>>>>>> figures. Lewin apparently had regular contact with the Frankfurt
> >>>>>>> School (connection of 'colleague') before leaving for the US, where
> >>>>>>> he would have found himself transplanted into the new milieu of
> >>>>>>> behaviorism.
> >>>>>>> I think Mike is right, we need 3D!
> >>>>>>> Martin
> >>>>>>> On Nov 8, 2009, at 9:07 PM, Andy Blunden wrote:
> >>>>>>>> I've been thinking ... What these diagrams lack is any information
> >>>>>>>> about why a writer is included and what they contributed to CHAT.
> >>>>>>>> Would anyone on the list like to put their hand up to write a
> >>>>>>>> paragraph (max 100 words probably) on a writer on the diagram
> >>>>>>>> explaining their contribution to CHAT and their sources? I would
> >>> be
> >>>>>>>> happy to collate them and fix the essays to hyperlinks on the
> >>> names
> >>>>>>>> of each writer? ... if others do most of the writing ... then the
> >>>>>>>> diagram might be genuinely useful.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Andy
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Andy Blunden wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Mmmmm. I didn't sign up for an intellecual map of the universe
> >>>>>>>>> here! The French Revolution produced a mass of political theory
> >>> of
> >>>>>>>>> course, but also, it is widely regarded as the inspiration for
> >>>>>>>>> Classical German Philosophy, which is one of our sources.
> >>>>>>>>> World War One?  I don't know, but I have thought in the past that
> >>>>>>>>> what Vygotsky called "The Crisis in Psychology", viz., the myriad
> >>>>>>>>> of conflicting currents in psychology suddenly contesting each
> >>>>>>>>> other after WW1, was some kind of reaction to WW1 and the Russian
> >>>>>>>>> Revolution.
> >>>>>>>>> The Reformation and the Industrial Revolution deserve mention
> >>>>>>>>> somewhere too, in the atlas of ideas. ...
> >>>>>>>>> Andy
> >>>>>>>>> mike cole wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> Hmmmmm, like the French revolution or world war I for example?
> >>>>>>>>>> :-)
> >>>>>>>>>> mike
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
> >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>   Both Arne's and mine are listed on
> >>>>>>>>>>   http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Paper/index.html and both are in
> that
> >>>>>>>>>>   directory. I too would be interested in seeing some other
> >>>> versions.
> >>>>>>>>>>   Something might emerge out of the crowd.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>   It is interesting isn't that it is a quite small number of ...
> >>>> what
> >>>>>>>>>>   do you say? ... millieux? events? movements? which produced
> >>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> main
> >>>>>>>>>>   ideas, via a whole mass of individual writers.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>   Andy
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>   mike cole wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>       I think your pictured genealogy is interesting, Andy. I
> >>>> thought
> >>>>>>>>>>       Arne's was too, and I a sure others can make interesting
> >>>>>>>>>>       modifications. If anyone could do this in three D it could
> >>>> get
> >>>>>>>>>>       really fascinating.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>       Part of what makes for the partiality of any such attempt
> >>>> is
> >>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>       position of the creator. Arne was a radical cultural
> >>>> historical
> >>>>>>>>>>       cognitive scientist of the
> >>>>>>>>>>       70's-90's (roughly), an importatant odd hybrid and
> >>>> unusually
> >>>>>>>>>>       nice guy.
> >>>>>>>>>>       Maturana, who is on his list, with Varela, were central
> >>>> figures
> >>>>>>>>>>       on bringing
> >>>>>>>>>>       dynamic systems into the discussion but you do not know
> >>>> about
> >>>>>>>>>>       him just
> >>>>>>>>>>       as many of us do not know some of the figures you name,
> >>> and
> >>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>       connections such as Dilthey-Wundt or Mead-Dilthey-American
> >>>>>>>>>>       pragmatism are poorly known altogether, but fascinating
> >>> (to
> >>>>>>>>>> me!)
> >>>>>>>>>>       in their implications.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>       And, of course, the historical events that various of us
> >>>> might
> >>>>>>>>>>       highlight as
> >>>>>>>>>>       most relevant are going to vary as well.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>       Thanks for the new tool to think with. I'll try to get
> >>>> Arne's
> >>>>>>>>>>       genealogy put
> >>>>>>>>>>       up where yours is and perhaps others will contribute from
> >>>> their
> >>>>>>>>>>       perspectives.
> >>>>>>>>>>       mike
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>       On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 6:42 AM, Andy Blunden
> >>>> <ablunden@mira.net
> >>>>>>>>>>       <mailto:ablunden@mira.net> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> >>>>>>>>>>       <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>          Well, here's my shot at it:
> >>>>>>>>>>            http://lchc.ucsd.edu/mca/Paper/Genealogy-CHAT.pdf
> >>>>>>>>>>          I have tried to deal with your very valid point,
> >>> Martin,
> >>>>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>>>       it is
> >>>>>>>>>>          more the milieux than individuals, but I have also just
> >>>>>>>>>> omitted a
> >>>>>>>>>>          billion possible arrows so it is readable. It needs
> >>> more
> >>>>>>>>>> than one
> >>>>>>>>>>          person to do this.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>          Andy
> >>>>>>>>>>          Martin Packer wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>              My question about the map is what the links
> >>>>>>>>>> represent. After
> >>>>>>>>>>              all, one scientist or philosopher may accept the
> >>>>>>>>>> ideas or
> >>>>>>>>>>              another, or react against them, or modify them, or
> >>>>>>>>>>       misunderstand
> >>>>>>>>>>              them. Seems to me each of these is a different
> >>> link.
> >>>>>>>>>> Also, a
> >>>>>>>>>>              family tree indicates two parents for every
> >>> progeny,
> >>>>>>>>>> where
> >>>>>>>>>>              Arne's genealogy seemingly shows spontaneous
> >>>>>>>>>> generation - one
> >>>>>>>>>>              figure alone can produce another. And wouldn't we
> >>>>>>>>>> want to
> >>>>>>>>>>       have a
> >>>>>>>>>>              way to map the milieus within which people were
> >>>> working?
> >>>>>>>>>>       Perhaps
> >>>>>>>>>>              something along the lines of the social fields that
> >>>>>>>>>>       Bourdieu was
> >>>>>>>>>>              fond of sketching, but with an added historical
> >>>>>>>>>> dimension.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>              Martin
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>              On Nov 4, 2009, at 1:44 AM, Andy Blunden wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                  To tell the truth Louise, there are a couple of
> >>>>>>>>>> names I
> >>>>>>>>>>                  don't know and half a dozen I know so little
> >>>> about
> >>>> I
> >>>>>>>>>>       don't
> >>>>>>>>>>                  know why they're included ... or not. Two of
> >>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> three
> >>>>>>>>>>                  "outcomes" are people who think humans are a
> >>>> type
> >>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>>                  computer, so I am not surpised that this
> >>>>>>>>>> genealogy is
> >>>>>>>>>>       odd to
> >>>>>>>>>>                  me. But there is sooooo much out there. So much
> >>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>       read. :(
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                  Up till a few weeks ago I thought that starting
> >>>> with
> >>>>>>>>>>                  Descartes was not justified, but I take that
> >>>> back
> >>>>>>>>>>       now. But
> >>>>>>>>>>                  somehow, Rene's nemesis, Aristotle, needs to be
> >>>>>>>>>>       included as
> >>>>>>>>>>                  well.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                  I don't know anything about Vico, but I find
> >>>> Locke,
> >>>>>>>>>>       Berkeley
> >>>>>>>>>>                  and Leibniz to be rather peripheral to *our*
> >>>> story.
> >>>>>>>>>>                  Kant certainly deserves an important place, but
> >>>> I
> >>>>>>>>>>       think his
> >>>>>>>>>>                  nemesis, Goethe, may be more important for us.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                  Fichte is actually the inventor of Activity as
> >>> a
> >>>>>>>>>>                  philosophical concept (I just learnt that Hegel
> >>>>>>>>>> asked
> >>>>>>>>>>       to be
> >>>>>>>>>>                  buried next to Fichte; like Goethe, very under
> >>>>>>>>>>       recognized in
> >>>>>>>>>>                  the Anglophone world).
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                  Hegel is the inventor of Cultural Psychology,
> >>> so
> >>>>>>>>>>       agreed there.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                  I think Stirner and Mach are total diversions
> >>>>>>>>>> from our
> >>>>>>>>>>                  tradition. But maybe someone can explain to me
> >>>> their
> >>>>>>>>>>       role.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                  Wundt and Dilthey are important, though I don't
> >>>> know
> >>>>>>>>>>       them well.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                  Feuerbach is a bit of a footnote, but if you're
> >>>>>>>>>> going to
> >>>>>>>>>>                  have Feuerbach, you've gotta have Moses Hess,
> >>>>>>>>>> author of
> >>>>>>>>>>                  "Philosophy of the Deed", and inspiration for
> >>>>>>>>>> "Theses on
> >>>>>>>>>>                  Feuerbach". Of course if you think Frege,
> >>>> Russell
> >>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>       Turing
> >>>>>>>>>>                  are important to the genealogy of CHAT, then
> >>> you
> >>>>>>>>>> wouldn't
> >>>>>>>>>>                  want Hess.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                  MARX, obviously, in CAPS.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                  And I would have lines from a whole bunch of
> >>>> people
> >>>>>>>>>>       going to
> >>>>>>>>>>                  Dewey, as well as Peirce and Mead, but even
> >>>>>>>>>> though Peirce
> >>>>>>>>>>                  was the elder, I don't think you can give him
> >>>> such
> >>>>>>>>>>       priority.
> >>>>>>>>>>                  Dewey surely was the leader. Arguable.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                  And where are the Gestaltists? Again, not for
> >>>>>>>>>> computer
> >>>>>>>>>>                  cognition, but there needs to be lines between
> >>>>>>>>>> Goethe and
> >>>>>>>>>>                  Kant and then to von Ehrenfels, and on to
> >>>> Koehler
> >>>>>>>>>> and Co.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                  Russian linguists like Potebnya, but I don't
> >>>> know
> >>>>>>>>>>       where they
> >>>>>>>>>>                  came from.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                  And these threads are all tied together with LS
> >>>>>>>>>>       Vygotsky, yes?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                  Freud has to be mentioned (I forget his
> >>>> sources),
> >>>>>>>>>> with
> >>>>>>>>>>                  arrows to Luria. And after Vygotsky and Luria
> >>>> you
> >>>>>>>>>>       have ANL
> >>>>>>>>>>                  and thus to present day people,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                  I guess, you can't leave out Piaget, and I
> >>> don't
> >>>>>>>>>> know
> >>>>>>>>>>                  Piaget's sources.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                  I know some people rate Merleau-Ponty, but if
> >>>> you're
> >>>>>>>>>>       going
> >>>>>>>>>>                  to give Merleau-Pony a seat, you have to put in
> >>>>>>>>>>       Lukacs and
> >>>>>>>>>>                  Horkheimer. I guess Habermas for discourse
> >>>>>>>>>> ethics, etc.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                  I have no idea why Husserl and Heidegger get a
> >>>>>>>>>>       mention. I my
> >>>>>>>>>>                  humble opinion, as clever as they might be,
> >>>> their
> >>>>>>>>>>       impact on
> >>>>>>>>>>                  Activity Theory has only been negative.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                  I have no idea why Bergson is mentioned: was he
> >>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>>       source for
> >>>>>>>>>>                  Piaget? Don't know why Nietzsche is there.
> >>>>>>>>>>       Interesting guy,
> >>>>>>>>>>                  but so are many others. Why von Uexhill?
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                  I agree that Wittgenstein rates a mention,
> >>>> though
> >>>>>>>>>> I don't
> >>>>>>>>>>                  know how much of a source he has been for us.
> >>> He
> >>>>>>>>>> is some
> >>>>>>>>>>                  kind of version of Activity Theory.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                  Frege, Russell and Turing are nothing to do
> >>> with
> >>>>>>>>>>       CHAT. What
> >>>>>>>>>>                  about anthropologists??
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                  Never heard of Maturana.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                  That's my reaction,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                  Andy
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                  Louise Hawkins wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                      Andy,
> >>>>>>>>>>                      I remember seeing this diagram a number of
> >>>>>>>>>> years ago,
> >>>>>>>>>>                      and I found it useful as a big picture
> >>>>>>>>>> diagram to
> >>>>>>>>>>       get my
> >>>>>>>>>>                      head around the significant theorist.
> >>>>>>>>>>                      Regards
> >>>>>>>>>>                      Louise Hawkins
> >>>>>>>>>>                      Lecturer - School of Management &
> >>>> Information
> >>>>>>>>>> Systems
> >>>>>>>>>>                      Faculty Business & Informatics
> >>>>>>>>>>                      Building 19/Room 3.38
> >>>>>>>>>>                      Rockhampton Campus
> >>>>>>>>>>                      CQUniversity
> >>>>>>>>>>                      Ph: +617 4923 2768
> >>>>>>>>>>                      Fax: +617 4930 9729
> >>>>>>>>>>                       -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>>>>                      From: Andy Blunden
> >>> [mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> >>>>>>>>>>       <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> >>>>>>>>>>                      <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> >>>>>>>>>>       <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>] Sent: Wednesday, 4 November
> >>>>>>>>>>                      2009 01:05 PM
> >>>>>>>>>>                      To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> >>>>>>>>>>                      Subject: [xmca] Arne Raeithel's "genealogy"
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Paper/Theoretical%20connections.jpg
> >>>>>>>>>>                      I never found this map very useful to be
> >>>> honest.
> >>>>>>>>>>                      Andy
> >>>>>>>>>>                      mike cole wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                          Have you found Arne Raeithel's
> >>>>>>>>>> "genealogy" of
> >>>>>>>>>>                          cultural-historical, activity theory
> >>>>>>>>>> thinkers
> >>>>>>>>>>       from
> >>>>>>>>>>                          several years back. I am sure it is
> >>>>>>>>>> somewhere at
> >>>>>>>>>>                          lchc.ucsd.edu <http://lchc.ucsd.edu>
> >>>>>>>>>>       <http://lchc.ucsd.edu>
> >>>>>>>>>>                          <http://lchc.ucsd.edu>. Perhaps you
> >>> (and
> >>>>>>>>>> Andy,
> >>>>>>>>>>                          and.....) could update it with
> >>>>>>>>>>                          more detail. Hegel generated so much
> >>>> that
> >>>>>>>>>> has
> >>>>>>>>>>       been
> >>>>>>>>>>                          "laundered" by subsequent "original"
> >>>>>>>>>> thinkers its
> >>>>>>>>>>                          totally amazing, and ditto Mead (whose
> >>>>>>>>>> writings i
> >>>>>>>>>>                          know far better, although very
> >>>>>>>>>> inadequately).
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>                      xmca mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>                      xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>>>>>>>>       <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                      http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>                      xmca mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>                      xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>>>>>>>>       <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                      http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                  --
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>>                  Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
> >>>>>>>>>>                  Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev,
> >>>>>>>>>>       Meshcheryakov,
> >>>>>>>>>>                  Ilyenkov $20 ea
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                  _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>                  xmca mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>                  xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >>>>>>>>>>       <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>                  http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>          --
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>>          Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
> >>>>>>>>>>          Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev,
> >>>> Meshcheryakov,
> >>>>>>>>>>          Ilyenkov $20 ea
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>          _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>          xmca mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>          xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >>>>>>>>>>       <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>          http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>   --
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>>   Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
> >>>>>>>>>>   Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev, Meshcheryakov,
> >>>>>>>>>>   Ilyenkov $20 ea
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>> Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
> >>>>>>>> Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev, Meshcheryakov,
> >>>>>>>> Ilyenkov $20 ea
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
> >>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> xmca mailing list
> >>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>> Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
> >>>>>> Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev, Meshcheryakov,
> >>> Ilyenkov
> >>>>>> $20 ea
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> xmca mailing list
> >>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> xmca mailing list
> >>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
> >>>> Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev, Meshcheryakov,
> >>>> Ilyenkov $20 ea
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> xmca mailing list
> >>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> xmca mailing list
> >>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
> Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev, Meshcheryakov,
> Ilyenkov $20 ea
>
> _______________________________________________
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
> _______________________________________________
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
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