Re: [xmca] established fact: x per cent of people are happy

[Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>]

I will start with a closer reading of the paper, David. I am 
interested. As I see it the rise in interest in measuring 
happiness is probably a response to at least the beginnings 
of questioning of "utility" theory, and expresses an effort 
to find some utilitarian alternative to utility, and in that 
sense ought to be welcomed. There is a lot of literature in 
areas I am interested that rely on this kind of data. I do 
think though that self-reporting of mental states is a 
mistaken response to a very real problem. C'est la vie.

thanks again David.
Andy

David Preiss wrote:
> For what is worth, if you are interested in this topic, you may want to 
> take a look at the book Well-Being: The Foundations of Hedonic 
> Psychology, which Kahneman and others edited. There is indeed a lot of 
> data gathering done recently on happiness and this book, although 
> already more than 5 years old, is still a good reference.
> DP
>
> On Nov 11, 2009, at 12:39 AM, Andy Blunden wrote:
>
> > So am I right that this paper argues that stupid as
> > self-reporting of mental states may be, it is better than
> > conventional choice theory? They even talk about people's
> > "perception of their experience." Wow! Long live the homunculus!
> >
> > One that always makes me laugh is whenever there is a
> > scandal about advertising of some kind, the journalists go
> > out into the streets and ask the punters if they are
> > influenced by advertising. Surprise, surprise, the result is
> > always 100% "no."
> >
> > Interesting to read that there is currently an explosion of
> > these happiness surveys and their scientific credibility. I
> > thought Amartya Sen has done a pretty good job on this one.
> > Rather than using Sen's classic example of the Indian beggar
> > who sleeps on a wet concrete floor every night, but has just
> > laid some fresh straw, I decided to do a survey myself. My
> > partner was 3 years ago an attractive, gregarious, smoking,
> > drinking, eating butterfly who had never even had a headache
> > in 50 years. Then she had a stroke. She can't eat, let alone
> > smoke or drink, can hardly talk or walk, doesn't go out and
> > is in almost constant pain. I just asked her if she's happy.
> > Answer "yes." I don't deny that that tells me something. And
> > I was pleased to hear it, too. Answers to researchers'
> > questions are objective data. But it is nonsense to think
> > that these words reflect observations of a person's own
> > state of consciousness.
> >
> > Oh, and I'm happy too.
> >
> > Thanks for the paper David. I will study it with more
> > liesure shortly.
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > David Preiss wrote:
> > > Dear Andy,
> > > This paper by Daniel Kahneman and Alan Krueger addresses your 
> > > question, I think:
> > > Developments in the Measurement
> > > of Subjective Well-Being
> > > Daniel Kahneman and Alan B. Krueger
> > > Journal of Economic Perspectives—Volume 20, Number 1—Winter 2006 
> > > —Pages 3–24
> > > http://www.krueger.princeton.edu/PDF%20of%20Kahneman%20Krueger%20paper.pdf 
> > >
> > > According to these authors, self reported measures may be not that 
> > > bad, after all.
> > > David
> > > On Nov 10, 2009, at 11:44 PM, Andy Blunden wrote:
> > > > I heard another one of those silly reports on the radio just now. 
> > > > Never mind what it was about, but it reported that x% of people who 
> > > > did y are happy, whilst of who didn't, only z% are happy, and the 
> > > > reporter went on to refer to it as an "established fact" that x made 
> > > > people happy. This "established fact" was gained from people filling 
> > > > out survey forms, "checking all the boxes" and returning them in the 
> > > > mail.
> > > >
> > > > It is over 100 years, isn't it, since mainstream, positivist science 
> > > > (let alone real science) rejected self-reporting of mental states as 
> > > > a legitimate way of doing psychology. How come it's still going on? 
> > > > Is this taught at universities, or is it just marketing firms moving 
> > > > in on the territory?
> > > >
> > > > Andy
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> > > >
> > > > Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
> > > > Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev, Meshcheryakov, 
> > > > Ilyenkov $20 ea
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > David Preiss
> > > ddpreiss@me.com
> > > http://web.mac.com/ddpreiss/
> >
> > --
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
> > Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev, Meshcheryakov,
> > Ilyenkov $20 ea
> >
> >
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>
> David Preiss
> ddpreiss@me.com
> http://web.mac.com/ddpreiss/

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev, Meshcheryakov, 
Ilyenkov $20 ea

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