Re: [xmca] Internalization of performance standards

[Mike Cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>]

Yes.
We are discussing the homology (?) (maybe wrong word) between changes at
individual and activity/organizational level.

This might go macro to Goffman, not sure.
passing and management are closely releated to
appropriation and appropriate, i think.
bon soir
mike

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Ed Wall <ewall@umich.edu> wrote:

> Well, if you put it that way (smile), you take me back, in a sense, to
> Goffman and face work  (and, perhaps, elsewhere) and I would say yes it does
> happen at the organizational level and it may not just be an accumulation of
> internalized individuals. In fact, I wonder if any individual need
> internalize. That is, the They is actually anonymous.
> Ed
>
> On Mar 24, 2009, at 11:20 PM, Mike Cole wrote:
>
> Yes. We appear to be talking past each other with lots of bemused
> observers.
>
> I misinterpreted your first message because I had this
> quick response to the word "standards" which in my
> life comes up most often in the NCLB context. You quite appropriately
> reoriented me.
>
> But I got to thinking, as I often do, about internalization
> at the level of individuals and of organizations. Hence my response.
>
> In YOUR context (now) I believe we agree.
> mike
>
> PS-- Do you think I am totally off the wall in drawing an analogy between
> internalization at the individual and organizational levels? (Disinterest
> aside). Certainly very possible!!!
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 8:14 PM, Ed Wall <ewall@umich.edu> wrote:
>
>> Mike
>>      I'm sorry, I have no real interest in NCLB (that isn't true, but not
>> in this context). I was referring to the sense in which Bodrova and Leong
>> seem to be using it. You seem to recognize that sense?
>>
>> Ed
>>
>> On Mar 24, 2009, at 11:04 PM, Mike Cole wrote:
>>
>> Ed-- I do not have the refs to hand, but there is quite a literature on
>> the impact of NCLBehind on classroom
>> practices.
>>
>> Peter S and many others. Help!!
>> mike
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Ed Wall <ewall@umich.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Mike
>>>         There is always the question of the Other and volumes have been
>>> written on this. However, it is the process of this type of internalization
>>> in which I'm interested as it seems to be always simultaneously problematic
>>> and crucial. So as you say THAT, might you say more about THAT (smile) or
>>> point me, as you have graciously done, in the direction?
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>> On Mar 24, 2009, at 8:29 PM, Mike Cole wrote:
>>>
>>> Oh, THAT kind of performance standards. I was missing the context. e.g.
>>> we internalize the expectations that others have of us.
>>>
>>> Shifting contexts to the level of national educational policy (which was
>>> the context I created with your words) provides an sort of interesting way
>>> to think about the extent to which no child left behind standards were
>>> internalized. At the institutional level, a lot in some places judging by
>>> the way in which classrooms have been changed into test driven organizations
>>> and accepted as "appropriate" (having been appropriated!).
>>> mike
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Ed Wall <ewall@umich.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>>      The idea behind such a phrasing, if I understand correctly, seems
>>>> to predate Aristotle (he says something like "We think it proper for the
>>>> young to be modest, because as they live by feeling they often err, and
>>>> modesty may keep them in check"), but such wording (i.e.  'internalization
>>>> of performance standards') appears in Elena Bodrova and Deborah J. Leong.
>>>> Tools of the Mind so I had assumed that it was somewhat usual.
>>>>
>>>> Ed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 24, 2009, at 12:43 AM, Mike Cole wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Could you expand please, Ed? I am not certain of what you mean.
>>>>> mike
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Ed Wall <ewall@umich.edu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Hi Folks
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   In some reading I've been doing the notion of, one might say,
>>>>>> 'internalization of performance standards' appears. I have the
>>>>>> impression
>>>>>> that Vygotsky thought something like thist and/or some of those after
>>>>>> him.
>>>>>> Any places I can look for more information?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ed Wall
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
_______________________________________________
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca