Re: [xmca] Marx and Engels works quoted by LSV

I was just going from memory as well Bruce. The Economic and
Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844 was first published by the
Institute of Marxism-Leninism in Moscow in German:
Marx/Engels, Gesamtausgabe, Abt. 1, Bd. 3, 1932. I have
always believed that LSV knew about the material prior to
that, but now I don't know what I based that on.

I think Achilles is right. This is going to need some work.
I have been trying to figure out where LSV's favourite quote
comes from: "My relation to my environment is my
consciousness" which the editors of LSV CW cite as from "K.
Marx and F. Engels. Works, Vol. 3, p. 29." But I cannot find
it anywhere, and not in Vol. 3 of MECW published in 1975.
I'll keep chasing this one.

Andy

Bruce Robinson wrote:
> I'm going from my fallible memory here as I haven't got ime to dig out
> references... The German Ideology was first published (in part, I think)
> in German in 1902 in Mehring's 'Aus dem literarischen Nachlass von Marx
> und Engels'. The 1844 Manuscripts surfaced and were certainly known in
> the USSR in 1932 or 1933 (though I'm not sure if they were published
> then). Ryazanov, the head of the Marx-Engels Institure which worked on
> these manuscripts was purged and died in 1938. The planned complete
> Russian editon of Marx and Engels' work was abandoned in the 30s. LSV
> was clearly familiar with the German Ideology. Andy, I was wondering
> what direct evidence there was for saying he was "acquainted" with the
> 1844 Manuscripts.
>
> I think the 1844 manuscripts were first published in English in the 50s.
> Stuart MacIntyre's book "A Proletarian Science" gives a table of which
> of Marx's works were available in English before 1939. It does include
> some of the early works but not the manuscripts.
>
> Bruce Robinson
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Blunden" <ablunden@mira.net>
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 10:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Marx and Engels works quoted by LSV
>
>
>> Achilles, I own all 50 volumes of the English language MECW, plus I
>> have transcribed a good proportion of it at
>> http://marx.org/archive/marx/works/cw/index.htm
>>
>> I also have the LSV CW, so if you have a particular difficulty just
>> ask me and I can probably tell you the answer. As the volunteer on
>> marxists.org responsible for the Marx-Engels Archive I get frequent
>> questions of this nature.
>>
>> It is true that in Vygotsky's lifetime much of Marx's corpus was not
>> translated into Russian let alone English and published. I don't think
>> this is a matter of Stalinism, just that the work of publishing is
>> vast, and is still on going to this day: MEGA2 (CW German) has just
>> been published, going beyond what was in MECW published 1975-2005.
>>
>> In particular, the 1844 Manuscripts which contain a lot of Marx's
>> early speculations about language, human nature and so on, were only
>> just discovered and being deciphered in those years, and Vygotsky was
>> privileged to be acquainted with them. Likewise, The German Ideology,
>> was left by Marx and Engels as a mass of crumpled manuscripts, and
>> deciphering them, with all their important observations, took time.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> Achilles Delari Junior wrote:
>>> Greetings for all
>>>
>>> Can you help me with one more operational question?
>>> In the English and Spanish editions of the Collected
>>> Works from Vygotky, there are many quotations to
>>> Marx in which we cannot directly know what re the
>>> actual works quoted, because Vygotsky used a Russian
>>> edition of the "Works" of Marx and Engels. Well, I
>>> wish to ask you:
>>>
>>> Is there some available index of that Marx and Engels
>>> works quoted by Vygotsky, in which we can recognize
>>> the original titles, in order to map what actual works
>>> he actually had accessed? I have notice that in stalinist period some
>>> Marx works
>>> was not availlable, mainly the young "idealist" Marx.
>>> Do you confirm this notice? Even you can't help me with this index...
>>> more important
>>> would be any help in order to give me clues about the
>>> marxists texts actually read by Vygotsky.
>>>
>>> Thank you very much.
>>>
>>> Achilles
>>>
>>>> From: achilles_delari@hotmail.com
>>>> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>> Subject: RE: [xmca] Is there something about/from the musicologist
>>>> Volochinov?
>>>> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 20:10:53 +0000
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you very much David,
>>>>
>>>> Your contribution set me a little confused,
>>>> because I had another information from other
>>>> source, but now I believe that this source can
>>>> be not so trusty. It is the biographical description
>>>> of V.N.V. at Russian Wikipedia, as follow:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Учился на
>>>> юридическом факультете Петроградского университета, в 1916 прервал
>>>> образование
>>>> В начале 1920-х жил в Витебске, опубликовал несколько статей о музыке."
>>>> "He learned in the juridical department of Petrograd University,
>>>> at 1916 interrupted the
>>>> formation. At the beginning of the 1920’s
>>>> leaved in Vitebsk, published several articles about
>>>> music."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%88%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2,_%D0%92%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD_%D0%9D%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I had believed that we could find some of these articles... And now
>>>> I do not now about the existence of these
>>>> articles, because your note.
>>>>
>>>> Well, it's fine... You make me to doubt... And to doubt
>>>> is very important in order to make dialog goes on.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you again.
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes,
>>>> Achilles.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 19:36:48 -0800
>>>>> From: vaughndogblack@yahoo.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Is there something about/from the musician
>>>>> Volochinov?
>>>>> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Achilles:
>>>>> I'm no longer sure that Volosinov was a musicologist. The only
>>>>> thing I really know about this is the reference to him by as a
>>>>> musicologist by Michael Holquist in the introduction to "The
>>>>> Dialogic Imagination", p. xxii, and I don't really trust this,
>>>>> because Holquist is trying desperately to prove that Volosinov
>>>>> could not have written "Marxism and the Philosophy of Language" and
>>>>> it is therefore the work of his hero Bakhtin. In this he is
>>>>> certainly wrong.
>>>>> I don't see much musicology in Volosinov's work, except the
>>>>> much-misunderstood passage where VNV says that the word is a
>>>>> "neutral" sign. This is often interpreted to mean that VNV believed
>>>>> in non-ideological language. That is absurd, and it only shows how
>>>>> very non-neutral our understanding of "ideology" has become.
>>>>> For VNV ideology simply means the production of ideas, and
>>>>> language that does not in some way engage with the production of
>>>>> ideas is hardly language. What VNV does mean is that the word is
>>>>> not like a number or a musical note, both of which have become
>>>>> functionally differentiated and dedicated signs within a specific
>>>>> field of semiosis and which cannot really be used outside of them.
>>>>> Volosinov was clearly influenced by Wolfflin's book on painting.
>>>>> But I'm pretty sure he wasn't a painter!
>>>>> David Kellogg
>>>>> Seoul National University of Education
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Achilles Delari Junior
>>>>> <achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Achilles Delari Junior <achilles_delari@hotmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: [xmca] Is there something about/from the musician Volochinov?
>>>>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>>>>> Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 7:25 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> Greetings for all,
>>>>>
>>>>> One more operational question to you:
>>>>> Is there some wrote production about/
>>>>> from the musician Volochinov related to
>>>>> music itself, semiotics of music and so
>>>>> on?
>>>>> There are some musicians in Brazil at Unicamp interested in
>>>>> understand musical
>>>>> genres aided by bakhtinian theoretical framework, and I had the
>>>>> notice that Volochinov was the musician of Bakhtin's
>>>>> Circle...
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you confirm this information to me
>>>>> and give me some biographical suggestions?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best wishes
>>>>> Thank you very much, one more time. Achilles...
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: hworthen@illinois.edu
>>>>>> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu; tball@ucsc.edu
>>>>>> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 18:37:39 -0600
>>>>>> Subject: RE: [xmca] Access to articles and discussion
>>>>>> CC:
>>>>>> Hi -- I think that at just about every sociocultural-related
>>>>>> conference I
>>>>> have been to, someone I've been talking with says that she reads
>>>>> XMCA but
>>>>> never speaks up. These are always people who are doing good work
>>>>> and have
>>>>> something that needs to be heard. Andy's right, Mike does the job
>>>>> of picking
>>>>> up the new voices. It's something we should each make an effort to do.
>>>>>> Helena
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Andy Blunden [ablunden@mira.net]
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 5:30 PM
>>>>>> To: Tamara Ball
>>>>>> Cc: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Access to articles and discussion
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Tamara.
>>>>>> Yes, I think the acknowledgment of new voices, when they
>>>>>> speak, is vital. Mike always does this, but I think it is
>>>>>> quite wrong for the rest of us to just leave that role to
>>>>>> Mike, who has enough to do. So, thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tamara Ball wrote:
>>>>>>> My humble suggestion is this:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> that those of you more experienced and comfortable with the XMCA
>>>>>>> discussion forum keep vigilant watch for new voices whenever they do
>>>>>>> emerge and then respond. Use the response also as a space for your
>>>>> own
>>>>>>> assertion, to be sure(perhaps one you would have made anyway), but
>>>>> even
>>>>>>> the notation of "re:" as the slightest acknowledgment of
>>>>> that new voice
>>>>>>> is alluring and validating. Any thoughtful response will do -
>>>>>>> but in
>>>>> my
>>>>>>> opinion, better if it is not only "sweet", encouraging or
>>>>> gentle but
>>>>>>> rather truly responsive and generative. In my own novice experience,
>>>>>>> intimidation is linked to a feeling of irrelevance which comes with
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> frayed edges of a thread that is not continued in some way or
>>>>> another.
>>>>>>> As Andy suggests, workload is always an issue of course, but I do
>>>>>>> understand that there are ways that participation in the parlance of
>>>>>>> this forum can actually *decrease* workload by creatively and
>>>>>>> expeditiously negotiating ideas or problems central to the work each
>>>>> of
>>>>>>> us has in front of us.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For instance I am in heat of writing a grant proposal that I hope
>>>>> will
>>>>>>> lead to a multi-year post-doc position that will allow me to expand
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> work I am already involved with at the Center for Adaptive Optics (
>>>>>>> electro-engineering, astronomy and optometry research center with a
>>>>>>> strong education component). I can imagine exploring more powerful
>>>>> ways
>>>>>>> to shape the structure of that work through conversations here that
>>>>> are
>>>>>>> also linked to the more central debates at hand.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tamara
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Nov 30, 2008, at 5:40 PM, Andy Blunden wrote:
>>>>>>>> Well I'm not one of those who vote and don't discuss but
>>>>> I am willing
>>>>>>>> to have a guess at issues here, and maybe people will be provoked
>>>>> into
>>>>>>>> correcting me?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have had brief discussions with several people either offline
>>>>> or via
>>>>>>>> FaceBook who have expressed an interest in xmca discussions but
>>>>> say
>>>>>>>> (basically) they are not clever enough to contribute. Having been
>>>>>>>> assured that this is absolutely not the case, they later go on to
>>>>>>>> become contributors. For some, it is that fear of speaking up and
>>>>>>>> maybe getting their heads bitten off. In other cases, I am sure,
>>>>> it is
>>>>>>>> a simple matter of the insanity of academic workloads already
>>>>> driving
>>>>>>>> people to the edge.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have racked my brain and failed to come up with a viable means
>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> resolving this, other than being civil and respectful in
>>>>> discussions.
>>>>>>>> When I asked about Bobath, someone who had never spoken before
>>>>> spoke
>>>>>>>> up saying "At last something I feel qualified to speak
>>>>> on." Likewise,
>>>>>>>> when I asked for help for my brother with his daughter's
>>>>> maths
>>>>>>>> problems, loads of really helpful and knowledgeable people spoke
>>>>> up.
>>>>>>>> But the general debate, people seem to find intimidating. And
>>>>> yet, in
>>>>>>>> my experience, unjustifiably so.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mike Cole wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I fear that at present the article to be made available free
>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> discussion
>>>>>>>>> at Taylor and Francis
>>>>>>>>> has not been released. The ever-lengthening duration of
>>>>> Thanksgiving
>>>>>>>>> holiday
>>>>>>>>> has probably not
>>>>>>>>> helped matters. Consequently, many, probabaly most, members
>>>>> of xmca
>>>>>>>>> do not
>>>>>>>>> have access to the
>>>>>>>>> article in question by Stetsenko and Sawchuk. We are working
>>>>> on it.
>>>>>>>>> The issue of discussion of article in MCA that are not made
>>>>> available
>>>>>>>>> free
>>>>>>>>> is even more difficult and we
>>>>>>>>> are working on that too. We have a situation where often two
>>>>> or more
>>>>>>>>> articles are ones that people want
>>>>>>>>> to discuss but we are unlikely to get T&F to offer the
>>>>> journal for
>>>>>>>>> free. So
>>>>>>>>> we are discussing with them
>>>>>>>>> the cost of electronic versions so that acces to people
>>>>> without the
>>>>>>>>> financial means to get access can
>>>>>>>>> be handled in a viable way.
>>>>>>>>> Simultaneously, I would not that more than 30 people voted to
>>>>> discuss the
>>>>>>>>> Sanino article, but to date, very
>>>>>>>>> few people have availed themselves of the opportunity they
>>>>> obtained
>>>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>>>> group by their votes. I take
>>>>>>>>> this to be a problem and would appreciate suggestions for
>>>>> making XMCA
>>>>>>>>> a more
>>>>>>>>> multi-voiced forum for
>>>>>>>>> discussion. Might the overwhelming majority of people who
>>>>> voted for
>>>>>>>>> discussion of this article but who have
>>>>>>>>> failed to comment on it help me and others understand what is
>>>>> a foot.
>>>>>>>>> Is it
>>>>>>>>> amplification or amputation, perhaps some productive
>>>>> transformation,
>>>>>>>>> that is
>>>>>>>>> required
>>>>>>>>> The academic semester/quarter draws to a close in the United
>>>>> States. The
>>>>>>>>> stock market is open in Asia. The people of Mumbai, Peshewar,
>>>>> Ramadi,
>>>>>>>>> Eastern Congo, flood raviged Brazil and elsewhere bury their
>>>>> dead.
>>>>>>>>> The polar
>>>>>>>>> bears, I hear, are enjoying a cool winter, but word is sparse
>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>> that part
>>>>>>>>> of the world. The future beckons. What is that she is holding
>>>>> in her
>>>>>>>>> hand?
>>>>>>>>> Or is it behind our backs?
>>>>>>>>> mike
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>>>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy/ +61 3 9380 9435 Skype
>>>>>>>> andy.blunden
>>>>>>>> Hegel's Logic with a Foreword by Andy Blunden:
>>>>>>>> http://www.marxists.org/admin/books/index.htm
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy/ +61 3 9380 9435
>>>>>> Skype andy.blunden
>>>>>> Hegel's Logic with a Foreword by Andy Blunden:
>>>>>> http://www.marxists.org/admin/books/index.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca_______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
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>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy/ +61 3 9380 9435 Skype
>> andy.blunden
>> Hegel's Logic with a Foreword by Andy Blunden:
>> http://www.marxists.org/admin/books/index.htm
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
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