RE: [xmca] Is there something about/from the musicologist Volochinov?

David,

I'm very thankful to you about your beautiful contributions at your note.
I will to report your question to my colleagues that are studding
this question... And I will persist in searching for that juvenile
articles from Volochinov, if they really exist, I hope so...
There are more sites that points out this relationship...
About semiotics of music I have notice that Ponzio writed a
book about, in Italian... He is a Italian scholar that have writed
some books about Bakhtin...

Thank you very much, once more
Achilles.

> Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 14:52:39 -0800
> From: vaughndogblack@yahoo.com
> Subject: RE: [xmca] Is there something about/from the musicologist Volochinov?
> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>
> Thank YOU, Achilles....actually, this is the FIRST real evidence I've seen outside Holquist that VNV was a musicologist. I'm still skeptical, for a couple of reasons. In 1916, when VNV interrupted his law studies, he would have been 21. Not a good time or place to start a new career as a musicologist!
>
> We know from Titunik that ten years later he was doing a Ph.D. in reported speech (roughly along the lines of the third section of Marxism and the Philosophy of Language). So his musicology career would have been pretty short.
>
> I'm very interested in the music/semiosis connection for a couple of reasons. First of all, I really liked the current MCA article on jazz and "listening"; THAT was the most "dialogic" of all the articles in this issue, and explained perfectly to me why jazz seems such talky music (more so than rap, precisely because it's less monologic). Secondly, I'm currently studying the Orff Schulwerk music education program and finding a lot of dance-iconic language connections (I've always been interested in language iconicity). Finally, I want to revisit this discussion between Rousseau and Rameau about which came first, music or language.
>
> In Thinking and Speech Vygotsky talks about how the SEQUENTIALITY of speech (which he calls its "partitioning) is something that is added to thinking, not original with it. It seems to me that there is no such thing as music or dance without sequentiality, but I may be wrong. Can the Brazilians set me straight on this?
>
> David Kellogg
> Seoul National University of Education
>
> --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Achilles Delari Junior <achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Achilles Delari Junior <achilles_delari@hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [xmca] Is there something about/from the musicologist Volochinov?
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 12:10 PM
>
> Thank you very much David,
>
> Your contribution set me a little confused,
> because I had another information from other
> source, but now I believe that this source can
> be not so trusty. It is the biographical description
> of V.N.V. at Russian Wikipedia, as follow:
>
>
>
>
>
> "Учился на
> юридическом факультете Петроградского
> университета, в 1916 прервал образование
> В начале
> 1920-х жил в Витебске, опубликовал несколько
> статей
> о музыке."
> "He learned in the juridical department of Petrograd University,
>
> at 1916 interrupted the
> formation. At the beginning of the 1920’s
>
> leaved in Vitebsk, published several articles about
> music."
>
>
> http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%88%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2,_%D0%92%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD_%D0%9D%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87
>
>
> I had believed that we could find some of these articles...
> And now I do not now about the existence of these
> articles, because your note.
>
> Well, it's fine... You make me to doubt... And to doubt
> is very important in order to make dialog goes on.
>
> Thank you again.
>
> Best wishes,
> Achilles.
>
>
>
> > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 19:36:48 -0800
> > From: vaughndogblack@yahoo.com
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] Is there something about/from the musician
> Volochinov?
> > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >
> > Dear Achilles:
> >
> > I'm no longer sure that Volosinov was a musicologist. The only thing I
> really know about this is the reference to him by as a musicologist by Michael
> Holquist in the introduction to "The Dialogic Imagination", p. xxii,
> and I don't really trust this, because Holquist is trying desperately to
> prove that Volosinov could not have written "Marxism and the Philosophy of
> Language" and it is therefore the work of his hero Bakhtin. In this he is
> certainly wrong.
> >
> > I don't see much musicology in Volosinov's work, except the
> much-misunderstood passage where VNV says that the word is a "neutral"
> sign. This is often interpreted to mean that VNV believed in non-ideological
> language. That is absurd, and it only shows how very non-neutral our
> understanding of "ideology" has become.
> >
> > For VNV ideology simply means the production of ideas, and language that
> does not in some way engage with the production of ideas is hardly language.
> What VNV does mean is that the word is not like a number or a musical note, both
> of which have become functionally differentiated and dedicated signs within a
> specific field of semiosis and which cannot really be used outside of them.
> >
> > Volosinov was clearly influenced by Wolfflin's book on painting. But
> I'm pretty sure he wasn't a painter!
> >
> > David Kellogg
> > Seoul National University of Education
> >
> > --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Achilles Delari Junior
> <achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > From: Achilles Delari Junior <achilles_delari@hotmail.com>
> > Subject: [xmca] Is there something about/from the musician Volochinov?
> > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 7:25 PM
> >
> > Greetings for all,
> >
> > One more operational question to you:
> > Is there some wrote production about/
> > from the musician Volochinov related to
> > music itself, semiotics of music and so
> > on?
> >
> > There are some musicians in Brazil at
> > Unicamp interested in understand musical
> > genres aided by bakhtinian theoretical
> > framework, and I had the notice that
> > Volochinov was the musician of Bakhtin's
> > Circle...
> >
> > Can you confirm this information to me
> > and give me some biographical suggestions?
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Thank you very much, one more time.
> > Achilles...
> >
> > > From: hworthen@illinois.edu
> > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu; tball@ucsc.edu
> > > Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 18:37:39 -0600
> > > Subject: RE: [xmca] Access to articles and discussion
> > > CC:
> > >
> > > Hi -- I think that at just about every sociocultural-related
> conference I
> > have been to, someone I've been talking with says that she reads XMCA
> but
> > never speaks up. These are always people who are doing good work and have
> > something that needs to be heard. Andy's right, Mike does the job of
> picking
> > up the new voices. It's something we should each make an effort to
> do.
> > >
> > > Helena
> > >
> > > ________________________________________
> > > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> Behalf
> > Of Andy Blunden [ablunden@mira.net]
> > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 5:30 PM
> > > To: Tamara Ball
> > > Cc: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Access to articles and discussion
> > >
> > > Thanks Tamara.
> > > Yes, I think the acknowledgment of new voices, when they
> > > speak, is vital. Mike always does this, but I think it is
> > > quite wrong for the rest of us to just leave that role to
> > > Mike, who has enough to do. So, thanks!
> > >
> > > Andy
> > >
> > > Tamara Ball wrote:
> > > > My humble suggestion is this:
> > > >
> > > > that those of you more experienced and comfortable with the
> XMCA
> > > > discussion forum keep vigilant watch for new voices whenever
> they do
> > > > emerge and then respond. Use the response also as a space for
> your
> > own
> > > > assertion, to be sure(perhaps one you would have made anyway),
> but
> > even
> > > > the notation of "re:" as the slightest acknowledgment
> of
> > that new voice
> > > > is alluring and validating. Any thoughtful response will do -
> but in
> > my
> > > > opinion, better if it is not only "sweet", encouraging
> or
> > gentle but
> > > > rather truly responsive and generative. In my own novice
> experience,
> > > > intimidation is linked to a feeling of irrelevance which comes
> with
> > the
> > > > frayed edges of a thread that is not continued in some way or
> > another.
> > > > As Andy suggests, workload is always an issue of course, but I
> do
> > > > understand that there are ways that participation in the
> parlance of
> > > > this forum can actually *decrease* workload by creatively and
> > > > expeditiously negotiating ideas or problems central to the work
> each
> > of
> > > > us has in front of us.
> > > >
> > > > For instance I am in heat of writing a grant proposal that I
> hope
> > will
> > > > lead to a multi-year post-doc position that will allow me to
> expand
> > the
> > > > work I am already involved with at the Center for Adaptive
> Optics (
> > > > electro-engineering, astronomy and optometry research center
> with a
> > > > strong education component). I can imagine exploring more
> powerful
> > ways
> > > > to shape the structure of that work through conversations here
> that
> > are
> > > > also linked to the more central debates at hand.
> > > >
> > > > Tamara
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Nov 30, 2008, at 5:40 PM, Andy Blunden wrote:
> > > >> Well I'm not one of those who vote and don't discuss
> but
> > I am willing
> > > >> to have a guess at issues here, and maybe people will be
> provoked
> > into
> > > >> correcting me?
> > > >>
> > > >> I have had brief discussions with several people either
> offline
> > or via
> > > >> FaceBook who have expressed an interest in xmca discussions
> but
> > say
> > > >> (basically) they are not clever enough to contribute. Having
> been
> > > >> assured that this is absolutely not the case, they later go
> on to
> > > >> become contributors. For some, it is that fear of speaking
> up and
> > > >> maybe getting their heads bitten off. In other cases, I am
> sure,
> > it is
> > > >> a simple matter of the insanity of academic workloads
> already
> > driving
> > > >> people to the edge.
> > > >>
> > > >> I have racked my brain and failed to come up with a viable
> means
> > of
> > > >> resolving this, other than being civil and respectful in
> > discussions.
> > > >> When I asked about Bobath, someone who had never spoken
> before
> > spoke
> > > >> up saying "At last something I feel qualified to speak
> > on." Likewise,
> > > >> when I asked for help for my brother with his
> daughter's
> > maths
> > > >> problems, loads of really helpful and knowledgeable people
> spoke
> > up.
> > > >> But the general debate, people seem to find intimidating.
> And
> > yet, in
> > > >> my experience, unjustifiably so.
> > > >>
> > > >> Andy
> > > >>
> > > >> Mike Cole wrote:
> > > >>> I fear that at present the article to be made available
> free
> > for
> > > >>> discussion
> > > >>> at Taylor and Francis
> > > >>> has not been released. The ever-lengthening duration of
> > Thanksgiving
> > > >>> holiday
> > > >>> has probably not
> > > >>> helped matters. Consequently, many, probabaly most,
> members
> > of xmca
> > > >>> do not
> > > >>> have access to the
> > > >>> article in question by Stetsenko and Sawchuk. We are
> working
> > on it.
> > > >>> The issue of discussion of article in MCA that are not
> made
> > available
> > > >>> free
> > > >>> is even more difficult and we
> > > >>> are working on that too. We have a situation where often
> two
> > or more
> > > >>> articles are ones that people want
> > > >>> to discuss but we are unlikely to get T&F to offer
> the
> > journal for
> > > >>> free. So
> > > >>> we are discussing with them
> > > >>> the cost of electronic versions so that acces to people
> > without the
> > > >>> financial means to get access can
> > > >>> be handled in a viable way.
> > > >>> Simultaneously, I would not that more than 30 people
> voted to
> > discuss the
> > > >>> Sanino article, but to date, very
> > > >>> few people have availed themselves of the opportunity
> they
> > obtained
> > > >>> for the
> > > >>> group by their votes. I take
> > > >>> this to be a problem and would appreciate suggestions
> for
> > making XMCA
> > > >>> a more
> > > >>> multi-voiced forum for
> > > >>> discussion. Might the overwhelming majority of people
> who
> > voted for
> > > >>> discussion of this article but who have
> > > >>> failed to comment on it help me and others understand
> what is
> > a foot.
> > > >>> Is it
> > > >>> amplification or amputation, perhaps some productive
> > transformation,
> > > >>> that is
> > > >>> required
> > > >>> The academic semester/quarter draws to a close in the
> United
> > States. The
> > > >>> stock market is open in Asia. The people of Mumbai,
> Peshewar,
> > Ramadi,
> > > >>> Eastern Congo, flood raviged Brazil and elsewhere bury
> their
> > dead.
> > > >>> The polar
> > > >>> bears, I hear, are enjoying a cool winter, but word is
> sparse
> > from
> > > >>> that part
> > > >>> of the world. The future beckons. What is that she is
> holding
> > in her
> > > >>> hand?
> > > >>> Or is it behind our backs?
> > > >>> mike
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> xmca mailing list
> > > >>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > > >>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy/ +61 3 9380 9435
> Skype
> > > >> andy.blunden
> > > >> Hegel's Logic with a Foreword by Andy Blunden:
> > > >> http://www.marxists.org/admin/books/index.htm
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> xmca mailing list
> > > >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > > >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Andy Blunden http://home.mira.net/~andy/ +61 3 9380 9435
> > > Skype andy.blunden
> > > Hegel's Logic with a Foreword by Andy Blunden:
> > > http://www.marxists.org/admin/books/index.htm
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > >
> >
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca_______________________________________________
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Received on Tue Dec 2 17:01:05 2008