Re: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and Eisenshtein (links)

I would like to think that Ramachandran's work is not unrelated to Luria's,
Achilles. He is, among other things, quite expert on art. You can find a lot
on google. This springs up early:

http://www.neurologyreviews.com/jul02/nr_jul02_mindseye.html

On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 8:51 AM, Achilles Delari Junior <
achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> I don't know about Ramachandran, Mike. I have understood only that
> synesthesia was a property
> of Shereshevsky memory, and what Eisenstein have conceptualized that
> process as one of the
> properties of normal people's understanding movie language. But, maybe not
> the main property or
> aspect, I don't know. This coming back of "this idea" in the US implied
> some misunderstanding?
> Achilles.
>
> > Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 08:07:34 -0800
> > From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and Eisenshtein (links)
> >
> > This idea of synethesia has made a big come back with the work of
> > Ramachandran and other neuroscientists here in the US, Achilles. Not sure
> > what the best references are.
> > mike
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 4:39 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Well, only to add a file to folder…
> > >
> > > Eisenshtein at Luria's "The mind of a mnemonist"
> > > key-word: synesthesia...
> > >
> > >
> > > 1) Shereshevski talking about Eisenstein's voice(s):
> > >
> > > "You know there are people who seem to have many
> > > voices, whose voices seem to be an entire composition,
> > > a bouquet. The late S. M. Eisenstein had just such a
> > > voice: listening to him, it was as though a flame with
> > > fibers protruding from it was advancing right toward
> > > me. I got so interested in his voice, I couldn't follow
> > > what he was saying..." (p.24)
> > >
> > > 2) Luria quoting Eisenstein I
> > >
> > > "There is another aspect to interpreting words
> > > synesthetically (determining meaning, that is,
> > > through both sound and sense). Whereas certain
> > > words seem not to fit the meaning they conventionally
> > > have, and therefore leave one nonplussed, the
> > > sound qualities of other words take on particular
> > > expressive force. S.'s experience of words was
> > > actually a measure of their expressiveness. No wonder,
> > > then, that S. M. Eisenstein, the producer, to
> > > whom the dynamics of expression were of such
> > > crucial importance in his own work, was so intrigued
> > > with S." (90-91)
> > >
> > > 3) Luria quoting Eisenstein II
> > >
> > > "Poets, as we know, are extremely sensitive to the
> > > expressive quality of sounds, And I remember, too,
> > > that S. M. Eisenstein, in testing students to select
> > > those he would train as film directors, asked them
> > > to describe their impressions of the variations on the
> > > name Mariya (Mariya, Mary, Marusya). He
> > > found this an infallible way to single out those who
> > > were keenly sensitive to the expressive force of
> > > words.
> > > This ability was developed to such a degree in
> > > S. that he never failed to detect the expressive qualities
> > > of sounds. It was only natural, then, that words
> > > which others accept as synonyms would have different
> > > meanings for him." (92-93)
> > >
> > > LURIA A. R. (1968) The mind of a mnemonist - A Little Book about a Vast
> > > Memory. Trans. from the Russian by Lynn Solotaroff. With a Foreword by
> > > Jerome S. Bruner. New York / London: Basic Books, Inc., Publishers
> > >
> > > These are all direct quotations to Eisenstein at this book...
> > >
> > > Achilles…
> > >
> > >
> > > > From: achilles_delari@hotmail.com
> > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > Subject: RE: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and Eisenshtein (links)
> > > > Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:02:02 +0000
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Well,
> > > >
> > > > Excuse me, only more a single little addition:
> > > >
> > > > These "various kinds of cinematic shooting for scientific purposes"
> > > > organized by Luria at the Institute of Cinematography, at the end of
> > > > the 1920's (mentioned by Khomskaia) are very interesting historical
> > > > sources too (if they survived in time, by any way) - related to
> > > > Eisenstein's aesthetical influences on making film or not. I guess
> > > > that to have any notice about that "cinematic shooting" could be
> > > > great too.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you.
> > > >
> > > > Achilles.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > From: achilles_delari@hotmail.com
> > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > Subject: RE: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and Eisenshtein (links to
> chain)
> > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 03:04:02 +0000
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It's great, Mike. A friend of Bella suggested a book of Ivanov
> "Ocherki
> > > po istorii semiotiki v SSSR". There is a version on-line, seems to be
> > > reliable:
> > > > > http://philologos.narod.ru/semiotics/ivanov_semio.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > In chapter 2 "Analysis of deep structures of semiotic systems of
> art",
> > > the names of Eisenshtein and Vygotsky (much more the first than the
> second)
> > > are quoted several times. But I couldn't translate yet (well, actually
> will
> > > not be a great translation...).
> > > > >
> > > > > Vygotsky's works quoted by Ivanov along the book are:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1 Выготский 1956: Л. С. Выготский. Мышление и речь. Избранные
> > > психологические исследования. М., 1956.
> > > > > 2 Выготский 1960: Л. С. Выготский. Развитие высших психических
> функций.
> > > Из неопубликованных трудов. М., 1960.
> > > > > 3 Выготский 1968: Л. С. Выготский. Психология искусства. Изд. 2.
> М.,
> > > 1968.
> > > > > (I think there are no quotes to Eisenstein by Vygotsky in these
> books,
> > > that I remember... The relationship must be conceptual, subtextual, but
> I
> > > can search for direct quotations too, later)
> > > > >
> > > > > The number of Eisenshtein's works quoted along Ivanov´s book is
> bigger
> > > than Vygotsky's:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1 Эйзенштейн 1945: S. Eisenstein. Film form. Film sense. Ed. 2. NY,
> > > 1957.
> > > > > 2 Эйзенштейн 1966: С. М. Эйзенштейн. [Письмо Ю. Н. Тынянову]. – В
> кн.:
> > > «Юрий Тынянов. Писатель и ученый». М., 1966.
> > > > > 3 Эйзенштейн 1962: С. М. Эйзенштейн. Зараза моих теоретических
> > > положений. «Вопросы теории и истории киноискусства». М., 1962.
> > > > > 4 Эйзенштейн 1964 а, б, в: С. М. Эйзенштейн. Избранные
> произведения, т.
> > > 1, 2, 3. М., 1964.
> > > > > 5 Эйзенштейн 1966: С. М. Эйзенштейн. Избранные произведения, т. 4.
> М.,
> > > 1966.
> > > > > 6 Эйзенштейн 1968: С. М. Эйзенштейн. Избранные произведения, т. 5.
> М.,
> > > 1968.
> > > > > 7 Эйзенштейн 1969: Сб. «Броненосец Потемкин». М., 1969.
> > > > > 8 Эйзенштейн 1973: С. М. Эйзенштейн. «Капитал». – «Искусство кино»,
> > > 1973, № 1.
> > > > >
> > > > > (4, 5 and 6 are selected works, I can't know the actual titles of
> the
> > > texts quoted - I search for possible works in what Eisenstein quotes
> > > directly Vygotsky, I guess this occurs at Film form and/or Film sense,
> I
> > > don´t remember).
> > > > >
> > > > > I will try to read Ivanov's contribution, as soon as I can - in
> order
> > > to find some more connections, "inner speach" seems to be an important
> > > common point.
> > > > >
> > > > > Achilles.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 17:52:09 -0800
> > > > > > From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and Eisenshtein (links to
> chain)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are new leads in those passages from Khomskaya, which I had
> > > forgotten
> > > > > > about, Achilles. I will try to follow up with friends in Moscow.
> > > > > > mike
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 5:30 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > > > > > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > (off topic)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Note to my last post...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1) "M.I. Knebel", must be "M.O. Knebel" too - Maria Ossipovna
> > > (Iossifovna)
> > > > > > > Knebel' (1898-1985)...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2) Luria and Knebel's text must be:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > * Кнебель М. И., Лурия А. Р. Пути и средства декодирования
> смысла.—
> > > Вопросы
> > > > > > > психологии, 1971, № 4, с. 76—83.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > * Knebel' M. I., Luria A. R. Puty i sredstva dekodirovaniya
> smysla
> > > -
> > > > > > > Voprosy psikhologii, 1971, N. 4, c. 76-83.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > * Knebel' M. I., Luria A. R. Ways and Means of decoding of
> sense. -
> > > Voprosy
> > > > > > > psikhologii, 1971, N. 4, c. 76-83.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I remove my questions about this dyad and this very interesting
> > > text, and
> > > > > > > ask you only about Luria & Eisenstein's letters availability -
> > > thank you.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Achilles
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > From: achilles_delari@hotmail.com
> > > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and Eisenshtein (links to
> > > chain)
> > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 03:39:11 +0000
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ok, thank you, Mike… I clearly understand your sugestion and
> > > agree.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I collected two references to Eisenstein at Luria's biography
> by
> > > Evgenia
> > > > > > > Homskaya… A book well known of you, but to me is a good
> surprise
> > > (I'm far
> > > > > > > away from actual university tasks since 2000). After quote, I
> will
> > > ask
> > > > > > > little questions in order to know where can I search better.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Evgenia D. Homskaya: Alexander Romanovich Luria: A Scientific
> > > Biography.
> > > > > > > Plenum Series in Russian Neuropsychology. New
> > > > > > > York/Boston/Dordrecht/London/Moscow: Kluwer Academic/Plenum
> > > Publishers,
> > > > > > > 2001.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "An important event in Luria's private life also occurred
> during
> > > those
> > > > > > > years in Kazan. He met his wife, Vera Nikolayevna Blagovidova,
> also
> > > a
> > > > > > > student at the University of Kazan. Later, in Moscow, she
> became an
> > > actress
> > > > > > > at the studio of the famous theatrical director, A. Y. Tairov.
> They
> > > got
> > > > > > > married at the beginning of 1923 but their union lasted only
> ultil
> > > 1929. In
> > > > > > > this relatively short period, however, Luria developed most of
> his
> > > artistic
> > > > > > > interests in theater, painting, poetry, and so on. It was then
> that
> > > he
> > > > > > > became acquainted with the master of the world's cinema, Sergei
> M.
> > > > > > > EISENSTEIN."
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > (Chapter 1. Childhood and Youth – p. 13)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "During the 1940s Luria kept in close touch with the famous
> film
> > > director
> > > > > > > S. M. EISENSTEIN, who made such masterpieces of world cinema as
> > > Potemkim and
> > > > > > > Ivan The Terrible. Since becoming acquainted in the 1920s,
> Luria
> > > and
> > > > > > > Eisenstein shareda a common interest in the psychology of art,
> and
> > > > > > > psychological aspects of artistic expressiveness. Eisenstein
> was
> > > interested
> > > > > > > very much in the phenomenon of the mnemonist Shereshevsky,
> studied
> > > by Luria.
> > > > > > > In 1929, through Luria's recommendation, EISENSTEIN was
> introduced
> > > to Kurt
> > > > > > > Lewin, with whom he discussed the problem of artistic
> > > expressiveness. At the
> > > > > > > end of the 1920's, Luria organized at the Istitute of
> > > Cinematography to
> > > > > > > execute various kinds of cinematic shooting for scientific
> > > purposes. In the
> > > > > > > 1930s, Luria and EISENSTEIN continued to exchange letters.
> Their
> > > > > > > correspondence continued during the Kharkov period and during
> the
> > > war. After
> > > > > > > the war, and until EISENSTEIN's sudden death in 1948, they
> often
> > > met, shared
> > > > > > > books, and talked. Under Luria's influence, EISENSTEIN wrote
> the
> > > articles
> > > > > > > "Psychology of art" and "Lectures on the Psychology of Art"
> (see
> > > Eisenstein,
> > > > > > > 1987, 1988-1996, 1998).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The psychology of art was also a particular theme for Luria
> and
> > > Vygotsky
> > > > > > > (see Vygotsky's book, the Psychology of Art, Moscow, 1982). In
> > > Luria's
> > > > > > > background, this theme is not very well known, although its
> > > expressions were
> > > > > > > very numeros and diverse. For example, his article written with
> the
> > > > > > > well-known film director, M. I. Knebel, "Ways and Means of
> Semantic
> > > Coding"
> > > > > > > (1971R), discussed verbal and nonverbal aspects of speech
> (mime,
> > > gestures)
> > > > > > > and was important for both the psychology of speech and the
> > > psychology of
> > > > > > > art."
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > (Chapter 4, The Forties: World War II and the Rehabilitation
> > > > > > > Hospital-Neuropsychology in the Making - p. 39)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ******
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Well. I only ask you for these wonderful letters and for
> Luria's
> > > article
> > > > > > > with M. I. Knebel – if it could give us some cues about what
> Luria
> > > think
> > > > > > > about movies and about Eisenshtein's influence in his thinking
> > > about this as
> > > > > > > well… In other hand, the articles of Eisenstein about
> "Psychology
> > > of Art"
> > > > > > > seems to be the same quoted by Christie & Taylor (1993)
> published
> > > in Leyda
> > > > > > > (ed.) "The Psychology of Composition" – this book is already
> > > available. Do
> > > > > > > you think that can exist more than two papers requested to
> > > Eisenstein for
> > > > > > > Luria? My copy here don´t have the actual references, and I
> don´t
> > > have the
> > > > > > > book itself yet... And my option was to aquire Leyda edited
> > > Eisenstein's, by
> > > > > > > the moment.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > All the titles I have are the following:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > * Eisenstein, "Psychology of Art", in Psycholgia
> > > > > > > > Processov Chudojestvennogo Tvorchestva (Moscow,
> 1980), p.
> > > 195
> > > > > > > > (quoted by JULIA VASSILIEVA in her paper "Eisenstein and his
> > > Method:
> > > > > > > recent publications in Russia")
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > * "The psychology of composition" (211)
> > > > > > > > * "The psychology of art" (211)
> > > > > > > > * "The psychology of compositon" (same title... but another
> text
> > > - at
> > > > > > > 249)
> > > > > > > > (at the contents of Eisenstein, S.M. "The Eisenstein´s
> > > Collection".
> > > > > > > Edited by Richard Taylor. Sagull Books, 2006)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm seeing that I can not give meaninful contributions. I
> have
> > > made a
> > > > > > > question, and now I only have some other questions to make
> again.
> > > I'll wait
> > > > > > > for other XMCA contributions, by Mike and all the people when
> will
> > > be
> > > > > > > possible. And I will continue search data where it are
> availlable
> > > to me here
> > > > > > > and now. This was not my main goal today (I was thinking things
> > > about
> > > > > > > psychology and mental health), but sometimes an action becomes
> an
> > > activity,
> > > > > > > no?
> > > > > > > > Thank you very much, and my best wishes,
> > > > > > > > Achilles.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 17:43:02 -0700
> > > > > > > > > From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and Eisenshtein (links
> to
> > > chain)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It would be great to get the info on Eisenshtein and
> LSV/ARL.
> > > The
> > > > > > > > > entire Stanislavsy and beyond discussion is quite broad.
> Yrjo
> > > has
> > > > > > > > > written on this topic.
> > > > > > > > > mike
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On 10/31/08, Mike Cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On 10/31/08, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > > achilles_delari@hotmail.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> To add more two or three links to a chain-complex
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 1) About Luria and Eisenshtein: "Eisenstein planned two
> > > courses on
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > >> psychology of art at Luria's request, in 1940 and 1947
> (both
> > > in
> > > > > > > Leyda
> > > > > > > > > >> (ed.)
> > > > > > > > > >> "The Psychology of Composition")." (Christie & Taylor,
> 1993,
> > > p. 225
> > > > > > > -
> > > > > > > > > >> Endnote 87); I ask for an used edition at amazon, seems
> to
> > > be fine.
> > > > > > > > > >> "Psychology of Composition" sounds like an interesting
> title
> > > and
> > > > > > > subject
> > > > > > > > > >> to
> > > > > > > > > >> me, composing evoques spinozian concept of "joy".
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 2) About Eisenshtein and Stanislavsky similarity: there
> is
> > > a very
> > > > > > > > > >> interesting note by Nikolai Veresov commenting
> Vygotsky's
> > > "genetic
> > > > > > > law of
> > > > > > > > > >> cultural development" explaining something about what
> they
> > > means by
> > > > > > > > > >> "Category":
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> "Category is the philosophical concept. How can one
> imagine
> > > that the
> > > > > > > > > >> function exists as a category? Sounds strange, but
> according
> > > to
> > > > > > > > > >> STANISLAVSKY
> > > > > > > > > >> (famous theatre director Vygotsky used to know) AND
> Sergey
> > > > > > > EISENSHTEIN
> > > > > > > > > >> (filmmaker and a friend of Vygotsky) "category" in the
> drama
> > > means
> > > > > > > > > >> "collision", "event", dramatic unit, and the unit of
> > > analysis of
> > > > > > > drama:
> > > > > > > > > >> it
> > > > > > > > > >> might be a dialogue (mostly) or emotional explosion and
> so
> > > on.
> > > > > > > Vygotsky
> > > > > > > > > >> is
> > > > > > > > > >> speaking about development as a process of events,
> > > collisions and
> > > > > > > their
> > > > > > > > > >> reflections in both planes." (N. VERESOV) (Caps mine)
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> Available at
> > > > > > > http://webpages.charter.net/schmolze1/vygotsky/vygotsky.html
> > > > > > > > > >> I don´t know the actual source yet - If there is a book
> or
> > > paper by
> > > > > > > > > >> Verosov
> > > > > > > > > >> about these matters. I will check.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> 3) About Eisenshtein and Stanislavsky differences:
> > > Eisenshtein
> > > > > > > seemed to
> > > > > > > > > >> be
> > > > > > > > > >> closer to Meyerhold than to Stanislavsky, the pome of
> Eris
> > > was
> > > > > > > maybe
> > > > > > > > > >> differences of emphasis in verbal or non-verbal
> components
> > > of the
> > > > > > > actor's
> > > > > > > > > >> play... but this stands only like um more question, not
> a
> > > secure
> > > > > > > > > >> information. Seems that there was, at that time, some
> kind
> > > of fight
> > > > > > > > > >> against
> > > > > > > > > >> "verbalization" in theatre, in which Meyerhold was
> activily
> > > > > > > envolved, but
> > > > > > > > > >> the actual role of Eisenshtein in that dispute is
> nothing
> > > clear to
> > > > > > > me.
> > > > > > > > > >> Eisenstein movies seems to operate with some kind of
> > > "pictograms",
> > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > >> nothing to affirm about absolutily dispense "words",
> even
> > > like
> > > > > > > "inner
> > > > > > > > > >> speach" - must be something about this in his own
> writings,
> > > quoting
> > > > > > > > > >> Vygotsky, I guess that I remember something like this in
> a
> > > work of a
> > > > > > > > > >> filmmaker friend of mine, some talks with her. But it
> was a
> > > long
> > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > > >> ago,
> > > > > > > > > >> too. I remain in my thinking by complex, you know.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> What do you think about these links? There are something
> > > useful?
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> Thank you.
> > > > > > > > > >> Achilles.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >>> From: achilles_delari@hotmail.com
> > > > > > > > > >>> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > >>> Subject: RE: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and Eisenshtein (a
> > > question)
> > > > > > > > > >>> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 01:02:11 +0000
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> Oh, it's great, Mike...
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> Borges wrote a tale named "Funes..." recreating
> something
> > > of
> > > > > > > > > >>> Shereshevsky... you know. So
> > > > > > > > > >>> seems that there is very artistic features in real
> human
> > > psychic
> > > > > > > > > >>> experience. About "generalized
> > > > > > > > > >>> image" I will see... Is this concept at "Iazik i
> soznanie"?
> > > We have
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > >>> Portuguese version. I have
> > > > > > > > > >>> read many years ago. I don't remember if I knew this
> > > concept , even
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > >>> another book. It
> > > > > > > > > >>> occurs to me, right now, to search immediately
> something
> > > about what
> > > > > > > > > >>> system
> > > > > > > > > >>> of acting was
> > > > > > > > > >>> used by Eisenstein's actors, if we can find any
> relation
> > > with
> > > > > > > > > >>> Stanislavsky's system of creative
> > > > > > > > > >>> actor's work... studied by Vygotsky discussed in the
> text
> > > from 1932
> > > > > > > > > >>> (publish in Collected Woks,
> > > > > > > > > >>> vol. 6 - prologue by Dot Robbins), and so important in
> 1934
> > > > > > > (thought and
> > > > > > > > > >>> word) with the
> > > > > > > > > >>> notion of "subtext"... If you tell us about
> psychological
> > > studies
> > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > >>> audience, and the feelings
> > > > > > > > > >>> and understanding of audience, the way that film is
> > > constructed and
> > > > > > > > > >>> actor
> > > > > > > > > >>> plays their roles
> > > > > > > > > >>> must be interesting to study too. After all, all we
> must to
> > > act...
> > > > > > > (as
> > > > > > > > > >>> "akt", and as "postuk").
> > > > > > > > > >>> I had think about the other way of mutual influences in
> > > dialog
> > > > > > > > > >>> psychology-movie too: what we
> > > > > > > > > >>> can learn from movie semiotics? And/or what about
> > > Eisenstein can
> > > > > > > teach
> > > > > > > > > >>> something to historical-
> > > > > > > > > >>> cultural approach? For instance, the notion of
> > > "non-indifferent
> > > > > > > > > >>> nature"...
> > > > > > > > > >>> I'm thinking by complex,
> > > > > > > > > >>> like ever I do. But now, it's the only way I can think.
> And
> > > these
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > >>> all
> > > > > > > > > >>> links that I can put in the
> > > > > > > > > >>> chain until now. And we even need a thesis and the
> young
> > > guy/girl
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > >>> it
> > > > > > > > > >>> in mind - I hope this
> > > > > > > > > >>> person can will arise soon in this context...
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> I will see something about Eisenshtein and
> Stanislavsky,
> > > right now.
> > > > > > > > > >>> What do you think? It can be useful?
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> Thank very much, for all your contributions since
> before,
> > > since
> > > > > > > many
> > > > > > > > > >>> years
> > > > > > > > > >>> ago.
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> Achilles.
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > >>> > Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 16:10:46 -0700
> > > > > > > > > >>> > From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > >>> > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > >>> > Subject: Re: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and Eisenshtein
> (a
> > > question)
> > > > > > > > > >>> >
> > > > > > > > > >>> > Excellent question. Lets see what we can find out.
> > > > > > > > > >>> > There are references in Eisenshtein's published work
> > > about his
> > > > > > > > > >>> > activities
> > > > > > > > > >>> > with
> > > > > > > > > >>> > Shereshevsky, the mnemonist. And there is, I believe,
> a
> > > close
> > > > > > > relation
> > > > > > > > > >>> > between the idea of "generalized image" in Luria and
> > > > > > > Eisenshtein's
> > > > > > > > > >>> > notion of
> > > > > > > > > >>> > montage.
> > > > > > > > > >>> >
> > > > > > > > > >>> > All we need is a bright young person with a thesis in
> > > mind and a
> > > > > > > ghost
> > > > > > > > > >>> > of
> > > > > > > > > >>> > chance
> > > > > > > > > >>> > of getting it done in this context.
> > > > > > > > > >>> > mike
> > > > > > > > > >>> >
> > > > > > > > > >>> > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 3:35 PM, Achilles Delari
> Junior <
> > > > > > > > > >>> > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>> >
> > > > > > > > > >>> > >
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > Greetings for all.
> > > > > > > > > >>> > >
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > One more extemporaneous question.
> > > > > > > > > >>> > >
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > If I'm not misremembering, in "Making mind", Mike
> Cole
> > > exposes
> > > > > > > some
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > very
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > interesting data about Luria and Vygotsky's works
> with
> > > the
> > > > > > > audience
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > of
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > Eisenshtein's movies, didn't he expose? Puzirey, I
> > > remember
> > > > > > > well,
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > has
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > said
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > something about Eisenshtein's reading of
> "Psychology of
> > > Art",
> > > > > > > in the
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > files
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > of Eisenshtein's personal library was founded an
> > > exemplar of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > book,
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > in
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > which at several places are underlined the words
> > > "contend and
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > form"...
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > a
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > basis for his own work has filmmaker. But, what
> more we
> > > can
> > > > > > > know
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > about
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > those
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > works with audience? Everything was loosed with
> War? Is
> > > there
> > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > follower or
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > co-worker that have dedicate even a single book or
> > > paper about
> > > > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > researchs? I Have thinking about these questions
> since
> > > > > > > 1991-1994
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > when
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > I had
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > read the fragments that I quote here, and only now
> I
> > > can ask
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > you.
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > It's
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > not my main subject now, but I'm concerning with it
> in
> > > a
> > > > > > > personal
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > way,
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > and
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > why not to ask for? Somebody can give me some help?
> > > > > > > > > >>> > >
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > Thank you very much for your attention and help.
> > > > > > > > > >>> > > Achilles.
> > > > > > > > > >>> > >
> > > > > > > > > >>> > >
> > > > > > >
> _________________________________________________________________
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> > > > > > > > > >>> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
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Received on Sun Nov 9 09:03:18 2008