Re: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and Eisenshtein (links)

This idea of synethesia has made a big come back with the work of
Ramachandran and other neuroscientists here in the US, Achilles. Not sure
what the best references are.
mike

On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 4:39 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> Well, only to add a file to folder…
>
> Eisenshtein at Luria's "The mind of a mnemonist"
> key-word: synesthesia...
>
>
> 1) Shereshevski talking about Eisenstein's voice(s):
>
> "You know there are people who seem to have many
> voices, whose voices seem to be an entire composition,
> a bouquet. The late S. M. Eisenstein had just such a
> voice: listening to him, it was as though a flame with
> fibers protruding from it was advancing right toward
> me. I got so interested in his voice, I couldn't follow
> what he was saying..." (p.24)
>
> 2) Luria quoting Eisenstein I
>
> "There is another aspect to interpreting words
> synesthetically (determining meaning, that is,
> through both sound and sense). Whereas certain
> words seem not to fit the meaning they conventionally
> have, and therefore leave one nonplussed, the
> sound qualities of other words take on particular
> expressive force. S.'s experience of words was
> actually a measure of their expressiveness. No wonder,
> then, that S. M. Eisenstein, the producer, to
> whom the dynamics of expression were of such
> crucial importance in his own work, was so intrigued
> with S." (90-91)
>
> 3) Luria quoting Eisenstein II
>
> "Poets, as we know, are extremely sensitive to the
> expressive quality of sounds, And I remember, too,
> that S. M. Eisenstein, in testing students to select
> those he would train as film directors, asked them
> to describe their impressions of the variations on the
> name Mariya (Mariya, Mary, Marusya). He
> found this an infallible way to single out those who
> were keenly sensitive to the expressive force of
> words.
> This ability was developed to such a degree in
> S. that he never failed to detect the expressive qualities
> of sounds. It was only natural, then, that words
> which others accept as synonyms would have different
> meanings for him." (92-93)
>
> LURIA A. R. (1968) The mind of a mnemonist - A Little Book about a Vast
> Memory. Trans. from the Russian by Lynn Solotaroff. With a Foreword by
> Jerome S. Bruner. New York / London: Basic Books, Inc., Publishers
>
> These are all direct quotations to Eisenstein at this book...
>
> Achilles…
>
>
> > From: achilles_delari@hotmail.com
> > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > Subject: RE: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and Eisenshtein (links)
> > Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:02:02 +0000
> >
> >
> > Well,
> >
> > Excuse me, only more a single little addition:
> >
> > These "various kinds of cinematic shooting for scientific purposes"
> > organized by Luria at the Institute of Cinematography, at the end of
> > the 1920's (mentioned by Khomskaia) are very interesting historical
> > sources too (if they survived in time, by any way) - related to
> > Eisenstein's aesthetical influences on making film or not. I guess
> > that to have any notice about that "cinematic shooting" could be
> > great too.
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > Achilles.
> >
> >
> >
> > > From: achilles_delari@hotmail.com
> > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > Subject: RE: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and Eisenshtein (links to chain)
> > > Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 03:04:02 +0000
> > >
> > >
> > > It's great, Mike. A friend of Bella suggested a book of Ivanov "Ocherki
> po istorii semiotiki v SSSR". There is a version on-line, seems to be
> reliable:
> > > http://philologos.narod.ru/semiotics/ivanov_semio.htm
> > >
> > > In chapter 2 "Analysis of deep structures of semiotic systems of art",
> the names of Eisenshtein and Vygotsky (much more the first than the second)
> are quoted several times. But I couldn't translate yet (well, actually will
> not be a great translation...).
> > >
> > > Vygotsky's works quoted by Ivanov along the book are:
> > >
> > > 1 Выготский 1956: Л. С. Выготский. Мышление и речь. Избранные
> психологические исследования. М., 1956.
> > > 2 Выготский 1960: Л. С. Выготский. Развитие высших психических функций.
> Из неопубликованных трудов. М., 1960.
> > > 3 Выготский 1968: Л. С. Выготский. Психология искусства. Изд. 2. М.,
> 1968.
> > > (I think there are no quotes to Eisenstein by Vygotsky in these books,
> that I remember... The relationship must be conceptual, subtextual, but I
> can search for direct quotations too, later)
> > >
> > > The number of Eisenshtein's works quoted along Ivanov´s book is bigger
> than Vygotsky's:
> > >
> > > 1 Эйзенштейн 1945: S. Eisenstein. Film form. Film sense. Ed. 2. NY,
> 1957.
> > > 2 Эйзенштейн 1966: С. М. Эйзенштейн. [Письмо Ю. Н. Тынянову]. – В кн.:
> «Юрий Тынянов. Писатель и ученый». М., 1966.
> > > 3 Эйзенштейн 1962: С. М. Эйзенштейн. Зараза моих теоретических
> положений. «Вопросы теории и истории киноискусства». М., 1962.
> > > 4 Эйзенштейн 1964 а, б, в: С. М. Эйзенштейн. Избранные произведения, т.
> 1, 2, 3. М., 1964.
> > > 5 Эйзенштейн 1966: С. М. Эйзенштейн. Избранные произведения, т. 4. М.,
> 1966.
> > > 6 Эйзенштейн 1968: С. М. Эйзенштейн. Избранные произведения, т. 5. М.,
> 1968.
> > > 7 Эйзенштейн 1969: Сб. «Броненосец Потемкин». М., 1969.
> > > 8 Эйзенштейн 1973: С. М. Эйзенштейн. «Капитал». – «Искусство кино»,
> 1973, № 1.
> > >
> > > (4, 5 and 6 are selected works, I can't know the actual titles of the
> texts quoted - I search for possible works in what Eisenstein quotes
> directly Vygotsky, I guess this occurs at Film form and/or Film sense, I
> don´t remember).
> > >
> > > I will try to read Ivanov's contribution, as soon as I can - in order
> to find some more connections, "inner speach" seems to be an important
> common point.
> > >
> > > Achilles.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 17:52:09 -0800
> > > > From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and Eisenshtein (links to chain)
> > > >
> > > > There are new leads in those passages from Khomskaya, which I had
> forgotten
> > > > about, Achilles. I will try to follow up with friends in Moscow.
> > > > mike
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 5:30 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > > > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > (off topic)
> > > > >
> > > > > Note to my last post...
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) "M.I. Knebel", must be "M.O. Knebel" too - Maria Ossipovna
> (Iossifovna)
> > > > > Knebel' (1898-1985)...
> > > > >
> > > > > 2) Luria and Knebel's text must be:
> > > > >
> > > > > * Кнебель М. И., Лурия А. Р. Пути и средства декодирования смысла.—
> Вопросы
> > > > > психологии, 1971, № 4, с. 76—83.
> > > > >
> > > > > * Knebel' M. I., Luria A. R. Puty i sredstva dekodirovaniya smysla
> -
> > > > > Voprosy psikhologii, 1971, N. 4, c. 76-83.
> > > > >
> > > > > * Knebel' M. I., Luria A. R. Ways and Means of decoding of sense. -
> Voprosy
> > > > > psikhologii, 1971, N. 4, c. 76-83.
> > > > >
> > > > > I remove my questions about this dyad and this very interesting
> text, and
> > > > > ask you only about Luria & Eisenstein's letters availability -
> thank you.
> > > > >
> > > > > Achilles
> > > > >
> > > > > > From: achilles_delari@hotmail.com
> > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > Subject: RE: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and Eisenshtein (links to
> chain)
> > > > > > Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 03:39:11 +0000
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ok, thank you, Mike… I clearly understand your sugestion and
> agree.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I collected two references to Eisenstein at Luria's biography by
> Evgenia
> > > > > Homskaya… A book well known of you, but to me is a good surprise
> (I'm far
> > > > > away from actual university tasks since 2000). After quote, I will
> ask
> > > > > little questions in order to know where can I search better.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Evgenia D. Homskaya: Alexander Romanovich Luria: A Scientific
> Biography.
> > > > > Plenum Series in Russian Neuropsychology. New
> > > > > York/Boston/Dordrecht/London/Moscow: Kluwer Academic/Plenum
> Publishers,
> > > > > 2001.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "An important event in Luria's private life also occurred during
> those
> > > > > years in Kazan. He met his wife, Vera Nikolayevna Blagovidova, also
> a
> > > > > student at the University of Kazan. Later, in Moscow, she became an
> actress
> > > > > at the studio of the famous theatrical director, A. Y. Tairov. They
> got
> > > > > married at the beginning of 1923 but their union lasted only ultil
> 1929. In
> > > > > this relatively short period, however, Luria developed most of his
> artistic
> > > > > interests in theater, painting, poetry, and so on. It was then that
> he
> > > > > became acquainted with the master of the world's cinema, Sergei M.
> > > > > EISENSTEIN."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > (Chapter 1. Childhood and Youth – p. 13)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "During the 1940s Luria kept in close touch with the famous film
> director
> > > > > S. M. EISENSTEIN, who made such masterpieces of world cinema as
> Potemkim and
> > > > > Ivan The Terrible. Since becoming acquainted in the 1920s, Luria
> and
> > > > > Eisenstein shareda a common interest in the psychology of art, and
> > > > > psychological aspects of artistic expressiveness. Eisenstein was
> interested
> > > > > very much in the phenomenon of the mnemonist Shereshevsky, studied
> by Luria.
> > > > > In 1929, through Luria's recommendation, EISENSTEIN was introduced
> to Kurt
> > > > > Lewin, with whom he discussed the problem of artistic
> expressiveness. At the
> > > > > end of the 1920's, Luria organized at the Istitute of
> Cinematography to
> > > > > execute various kinds of cinematic shooting for scientific
> purposes. In the
> > > > > 1930s, Luria and EISENSTEIN continued to exchange letters. Their
> > > > > correspondence continued during the Kharkov period and during the
> war. After
> > > > > the war, and until EISENSTEIN's sudden death in 1948, they often
> met, shared
> > > > > books, and talked. Under Luria's influence, EISENSTEIN wrote the
> articles
> > > > > "Psychology of art" and "Lectures on the Psychology of Art" (see
> Eisenstein,
> > > > > 1987, 1988-1996, 1998).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The psychology of art was also a particular theme for Luria and
> Vygotsky
> > > > > (see Vygotsky's book, the Psychology of Art, Moscow, 1982). In
> Luria's
> > > > > background, this theme is not very well known, although its
> expressions were
> > > > > very numeros and diverse. For example, his article written with the
> > > > > well-known film director, M. I. Knebel, "Ways and Means of Semantic
> Coding"
> > > > > (1971R), discussed verbal and nonverbal aspects of speech (mime,
> gestures)
> > > > > and was important for both the psychology of speech and the
> psychology of
> > > > > art."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > (Chapter 4, The Forties: World War II and the Rehabilitation
> > > > > Hospital-Neuropsychology in the Making - p. 39)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ******
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well. I only ask you for these wonderful letters and for Luria's
> article
> > > > > with M. I. Knebel – if it could give us some cues about what Luria
> think
> > > > > about movies and about Eisenshtein's influence in his thinking
> about this as
> > > > > well… In other hand, the articles of Eisenstein about "Psychology
> of Art"
> > > > > seems to be the same quoted by Christie & Taylor (1993) published
> in Leyda
> > > > > (ed.) "The Psychology of Composition" – this book is already
> available. Do
> > > > > you think that can exist more than two papers requested to
> Eisenstein for
> > > > > Luria? My copy here don´t have the actual references, and I don´t
> have the
> > > > > book itself yet... And my option was to aquire Leyda edited
> Eisenstein's, by
> > > > > the moment.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All the titles I have are the following:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * Eisenstein, "Psychology of Art", in Psycholgia
> > > > > > Processov Chudojestvennogo Tvorchestva (Moscow, 1980), p.
> 195
> > > > > > (quoted by JULIA VASSILIEVA in her paper "Eisenstein and his
> Method:
> > > > > recent publications in Russia")
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > * "The psychology of composition" (211)
> > > > > > * "The psychology of art" (211)
> > > > > > * "The psychology of compositon" (same title... but another text
> - at
> > > > > 249)
> > > > > > (at the contents of Eisenstein, S.M. "The Eisenstein´s
> Collection".
> > > > > Edited by Richard Taylor. Sagull Books, 2006)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm seeing that I can not give meaninful contributions. I have
> made a
> > > > > question, and now I only have some other questions to make again.
> I'll wait
> > > > > for other XMCA contributions, by Mike and all the people when will
> be
> > > > > possible. And I will continue search data where it are availlable
> to me here
> > > > > and now. This was not my main goal today (I was thinking things
> about
> > > > > psychology and mental health), but sometimes an action becomes an
> activity,
> > > > > no?
> > > > > > Thank you very much, and my best wishes,
> > > > > > Achilles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 17:43:02 -0700
> > > > > > > From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and Eisenshtein (links to
> chain)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It would be great to get the info on Eisenshtein and LSV/ARL.
> The
> > > > > > > entire Stanislavsy and beyond discussion is quite broad. Yrjo
> has
> > > > > > > written on this topic.
> > > > > > > mike
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 10/31/08, Mike Cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On 10/31/08, Achilles Delari Junior <
> achilles_delari@hotmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> To add more two or three links to a chain-complex
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> 1) About Luria and Eisenshtein: "Eisenstein planned two
> courses on
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> psychology of art at Luria's request, in 1940 and 1947 (both
> in
> > > > > Leyda
> > > > > > > >> (ed.)
> > > > > > > >> "The Psychology of Composition")." (Christie & Taylor, 1993,
> p. 225
> > > > > -
> > > > > > > >> Endnote 87); I ask for an used edition at amazon, seems to
> be fine.
> > > > > > > >> "Psychology of Composition" sounds like an interesting title
> and
> > > > > subject
> > > > > > > >> to
> > > > > > > >> me, composing evoques spinozian concept of "joy".
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> 2) About Eisenshtein and Stanislavsky similarity: there is
> a very
> > > > > > > >> interesting note by Nikolai Veresov commenting Vygotsky's
> "genetic
> > > > > law of
> > > > > > > >> cultural development" explaining something about what they
> means by
> > > > > > > >> "Category":
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> "Category is the philosophical concept. How can one imagine
> that the
> > > > > > > >> function exists as a category? Sounds strange, but according
> to
> > > > > > > >> STANISLAVSKY
> > > > > > > >> (famous theatre director Vygotsky used to know) AND Sergey
> > > > > EISENSHTEIN
> > > > > > > >> (filmmaker and a friend of Vygotsky) "category" in the drama
> means
> > > > > > > >> "collision", "event", dramatic unit, and the unit of
> analysis of
> > > > > drama:
> > > > > > > >> it
> > > > > > > >> might be a dialogue (mostly) or emotional explosion and so
> on.
> > > > > Vygotsky
> > > > > > > >> is
> > > > > > > >> speaking about development as a process of events,
> collisions and
> > > > > their
> > > > > > > >> reflections in both planes." (N. VERESOV) (Caps mine)
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Available at
> > > > > http://webpages.charter.net/schmolze1/vygotsky/vygotsky.html
> > > > > > > >> I don´t know the actual source yet - If there is a book or
> paper by
> > > > > > > >> Verosov
> > > > > > > >> about these matters. I will check.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> 3) About Eisenshtein and Stanislavsky differences:
> Eisenshtein
> > > > > seemed to
> > > > > > > >> be
> > > > > > > >> closer to Meyerhold than to Stanislavsky, the pome of Eris
> was
> > > > > maybe
> > > > > > > >> differences of emphasis in verbal or non-verbal components
> of the
> > > > > actor's
> > > > > > > >> play... but this stands only like um more question, not a
> secure
> > > > > > > >> information. Seems that there was, at that time, some kind
> of fight
> > > > > > > >> against
> > > > > > > >> "verbalization" in theatre, in which Meyerhold was activily
> > > > > envolved, but
> > > > > > > >> the actual role of Eisenshtein in that dispute is nothing
> clear to
> > > > > me.
> > > > > > > >> Eisenstein movies seems to operate with some kind of
> "pictograms",
> > > > > but
> > > > > > > >> nothing to affirm about absolutily dispense "words", even
> like
> > > > > "inner
> > > > > > > >> speach" - must be something about this in his own writings,
> quoting
> > > > > > > >> Vygotsky, I guess that I remember something like this in a
> work of a
> > > > > > > >> filmmaker friend of mine, some talks with her. But it was a
> long
> > > > > time
> > > > > > > >> ago,
> > > > > > > >> too. I remain in my thinking by complex, you know.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> What do you think about these links? There are something
> useful?
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Thank you.
> > > > > > > >> Achilles.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>> From: achilles_delari@hotmail.com
> > > > > > > >>> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > >>> Subject: RE: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and Eisenshtein (a
> question)
> > > > > > > >>> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 01:02:11 +0000
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> Oh, it's great, Mike...
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> Borges wrote a tale named "Funes..." recreating something
> of
> > > > > > > >>> Shereshevsky... you know. So
> > > > > > > >>> seems that there is very artistic features in real human
> psychic
> > > > > > > >>> experience. About "generalized
> > > > > > > >>> image" I will see... Is this concept at "Iazik i soznanie"?
> We have
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > >>> Portuguese version. I have
> > > > > > > >>> read many years ago. I don't remember if I knew this
> concept , even
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > >>> another book. It
> > > > > > > >>> occurs to me, right now, to search immediately something
> about what
> > > > > > > >>> system
> > > > > > > >>> of acting was
> > > > > > > >>> used by Eisenstein's actors, if we can find any relation
> with
> > > > > > > >>> Stanislavsky's system of creative
> > > > > > > >>> actor's work... studied by Vygotsky discussed in the text
> from 1932
> > > > > > > >>> (publish in Collected Woks,
> > > > > > > >>> vol. 6 - prologue by Dot Robbins), and so important in 1934
> > > > > (thought and
> > > > > > > >>> word) with the
> > > > > > > >>> notion of "subtext"... If you tell us about psychological
> studies
> > > > > about
> > > > > > > >>> audience, and the feelings
> > > > > > > >>> and understanding of audience, the way that film is
> constructed and
> > > > > > > >>> actor
> > > > > > > >>> plays their roles
> > > > > > > >>> must be interesting to study too. After all, all we must to
> act...
> > > > > (as
> > > > > > > >>> "akt", and as "postuk").
> > > > > > > >>> I had think about the other way of mutual influences in
> dialog
> > > > > > > >>> psychology-movie too: what we
> > > > > > > >>> can learn from movie semiotics? And/or what about
> Eisenstein can
> > > > > teach
> > > > > > > >>> something to historical-
> > > > > > > >>> cultural approach? For instance, the notion of
> "non-indifferent
> > > > > > > >>> nature"...
> > > > > > > >>> I'm thinking by complex,
> > > > > > > >>> like ever I do. But now, it's the only way I can think. And
> these
> > > > > are
> > > > > > > >>> all
> > > > > > > >>> links that I can put in the
> > > > > > > >>> chain until now. And we even need a thesis and the young
> guy/girl
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > >>> it
> > > > > > > >>> in mind - I hope this
> > > > > > > >>> person can will arise soon in this context...
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> I will see something about Eisenshtein and Stanislavsky,
> right now.
> > > > > > > >>> What do you think? It can be useful?
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> Thank very much, for all your contributions since before,
> since
> > > > > many
> > > > > > > >>> years
> > > > > > > >>> ago.
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> Achilles.
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>> > Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 16:10:46 -0700
> > > > > > > >>> > From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > > > > > > >>> > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > >>> > Subject: Re: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and Eisenshtein (a
> question)
> > > > > > > >>> >
> > > > > > > >>> > Excellent question. Lets see what we can find out.
> > > > > > > >>> > There are references in Eisenshtein's published work
> about his
> > > > > > > >>> > activities
> > > > > > > >>> > with
> > > > > > > >>> > Shereshevsky, the mnemonist. And there is, I believe, a
> close
> > > > > relation
> > > > > > > >>> > between the idea of "generalized image" in Luria and
> > > > > Eisenshtein's
> > > > > > > >>> > notion of
> > > > > > > >>> > montage.
> > > > > > > >>> >
> > > > > > > >>> > All we need is a bright young person with a thesis in
> mind and a
> > > > > ghost
> > > > > > > >>> > of
> > > > > > > >>> > chance
> > > > > > > >>> > of getting it done in this context.
> > > > > > > >>> > mike
> > > > > > > >>> >
> > > > > > > >>> > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 3:35 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > > > > > > >>> > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>> >
> > > > > > > >>> > >
> > > > > > > >>> > > Greetings for all.
> > > > > > > >>> > >
> > > > > > > >>> > > One more extemporaneous question.
> > > > > > > >>> > >
> > > > > > > >>> > > If I'm not misremembering, in "Making mind", Mike Cole
> exposes
> > > > > some
> > > > > > > >>> > > very
> > > > > > > >>> > > interesting data about Luria and Vygotsky's works with
> the
> > > > > audience
> > > > > > > >>> > > of
> > > > > > > >>> > > Eisenshtein's movies, didn't he expose? Puzirey, I
> remember
> > > > > well,
> > > > > > > >>> > > has
> > > > > > > >>> > > said
> > > > > > > >>> > > something about Eisenshtein's reading of "Psychology of
> Art",
> > > > > in the
> > > > > > > >>> > > files
> > > > > > > >>> > > of Eisenshtein's personal library was founded an
> exemplar of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > >>> > > book,
> > > > > > > >>> > > in
> > > > > > > >>> > > which at several places are underlined the words
> "contend and
> > > > > > > >>> > > form"...
> > > > > > > >>> > > a
> > > > > > > >>> > > basis for his own work has filmmaker. But, what more we
> can
> > > > > know
> > > > > > > >>> > > about
> > > > > > > >>> > > those
> > > > > > > >>> > > works with audience? Everything was loosed with War? Is
> there
> > > > > no
> > > > > > > >>> > > follower or
> > > > > > > >>> > > co-worker that have dedicate even a single book or
> paper about
> > > > > these
> > > > > > > >>> > > researchs? I Have thinking about these questions since
> > > > > 1991-1994
> > > > > > > >>> > > when
> > > > > > > >>> > > I had
> > > > > > > >>> > > read the fragments that I quote here, and only now I
> can ask
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > >>> > > you.
> > > > > > > >>> > > It's
> > > > > > > >>> > > not my main subject now, but I'm concerning with it in
> a
> > > > > personal
> > > > > > > >>> > > way,
> > > > > > > >>> > > and
> > > > > > > >>> > > why not to ask for? Somebody can give me some help?
> > > > > > > >>> > >
> > > > > > > >>> > > Thank you very much for your attention and help.
> > > > > > > >>> > > Achilles.
> > > > > > > >>> > >
> > > > > > > >>> > >
> > > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > >>> > > Conheça o Windows Live Spaces, a rede de
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> > > > > > > >>> > >
> > > > > > > >>> > >
> > > > >
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> > > > > > > >>> > >
> > > > > > > >>> > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > >>> > xmca mailing list
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> > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >>>
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> > > > > > > >>>
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> >
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Received on Sun Nov 9 08:08:32 2008