Re: [xmca] Publish and/or Perish

I certainly agree with you, Michael. But I would not fault the system
but university administrators and their lack of intellectual
sophistication. Actually, the web of science is quite useful as a
system to track a line of research. What is insane, of course, is not
the system but the way it is used. As in many things, what is
astonishing is that so many universities and funding sources are
using the same way of alienated reasoning these days. That said, I do
think that it would not harm to get MCA in. Actually, it would make
life much easier for all of us that work at academic institutions and
adhere to a CHAT perspective.
David

On Jul 5, 2008, at 9:51 AM, Michael Glassman wrote:

> There is a big question here I think, which is what degree do you
> engage in cultural practices simply because they are the cultural
> practices. The reliance on ISI is turning into a disaster in some
> cases because journals as figuring out how to game the system.
> Groups actually have meetings trying to determine how to raise
> their ISI scores. The goal in many cases, and in different venues,
> is not doing good scholarship but either getting your major journal
> a higher ISI score or getting a journal article in to a high ISI
> journal. This cannot help but have a deleterious impact. I am not
> saying this on an individual level - you do what you have to do -
> but more on a larger societal level. The willingness to give in to
> measures that do little else but measure themselves has become
> almost epidemic within our society. It is a painful process to
> watch, and even more painful to be part of.
>
> Beyond that, it is kind of transient. When the whole idea of ISI
> was created in the seventies there was no internet, and this was a
> relatively arcane system. With the advent of the internet the
> information became easier to access, but of course also easier to
> manipulate. If you take a look at the year to year ISI scores of
> journals they go up and down like yo yos. One year you're nothing,
> the next year you're on top of the world, a few years later you're
> less than nothing without doing anything differently. It's like
> the garment industry - which means it's insane. Beyond that,
> administrations have figured out ISI is being gamed. I was
> recently at a meeting where the administrators said they wanted to
> change to google scholar as the pre-eminent measure, sending
> everyone in the room in to a frenzy (because their professional
> lives have been driven by ISI).
>
> Maybe we can stop counting and starting thinking.
>
> Michael
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu on behalf of Peter Smagorinsky
> Sent: Sat 7/5/2008 9:28 AM
> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity'
> Subject: RE: [xmca] Publish and/or Perish
>
>
>
> I really can't explain or defend the charts and how they're
> compiled; I
> simply provide one that I use when evaluating tenure/promotion cases.
> Sorry,Peter
>
> Peter Smagorinsky
> The University of Georgia
> 125 Aderhold Hall
> Athens, GA 30602
> smago@uga.edu/phone:706-542-4507
> http://www.coe.uga.edu/lle/faculty/smagorinsky/index.html
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
> bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> Behalf Of David H Kirshner
> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 9:08 AM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: RE: [xmca] Publish and/or Perish
>
> Peter,
>
> Can you clarify a few points about the list:
>
> Why are some central journals, like Educational Researcher, not
> included and
> others, like Review of Research in Education, not listed with complete
> entries?
>
> I'm assuming from the low score for Harvard Ed Review that impact is
> calculated by frequency of citation, which means that another key
> measure of
> journal quality--acceptance rate--is ignored. Is that correct?
>
> Thanks.
> David
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
> bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> Behalf Of Peter Smagorinsky
> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 4:56 AM
> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity'
> Subject: RE: [xmca] Publish and/or Perish
>
> Attached is one "impact factor" list I found for journals in
> education. p
>
> Peter Smagorinsky
> The University of Georgia
> 125 Aderhold Hall
> Athens, GA 30602
> smago@uga.edu/phone:706-542-4507
> http://www.coe.uga.edu/lle/faculty/smagorinsky/index.html
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
> bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> Behalf Of Cathrene Connery
> Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 7:38 PM
> To: mcole@weber.ucsd.edu; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Cc: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Publish and/or Perish
>
> So, who has a list of the ISI journals? Anyone willing to share?
> Cathrene
>
>
>
> The BIG down side is total assimilation to the existing mainstream,
> David.
>>
>> I personally suggest a multi-valenced approach that includes ISI
>> highly rated journals and deviant ones, like MCA.
>>
>> Michael left out part of the GOOD news. MCA has a rating that should
>> win it ISI inclusion by year's end.
>>
>> I assume the PLAY article for discussion made it to everyone. People
>> reading this weekend?
>> mike
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 1:50 PM, David Preiss <davidpreiss@uc.cl>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> As a young scholar, I totally ENDORSE this petition, Michael.
>>> Indeed,
>>> I have always thought that MCA`s influence and intellectual
>>> appeal is
>>> not commensurate to its lack of inclusion in ISI. Alas, ISI! No
>>> chance but to play according to its rules, I guess.
>>> david
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 4, 2008, at 4:39 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>> Mike and I have had a conversation off line. He suggested I should
>>>> write to the list. It concerns the increasing pressure on all of us
>>>> to publish in "good" journals, and universities increasingly use as
>>>> a measure the presence and impact factor ranking in ISI Web of
>>>> Science as a measure. This is especially true for Asian countries
>>>> and other countries. With my graduate students, we always make
>>>> selections based on this criterion, because I want them to be
>>>> successful in their home countries and careers.
>>>>
>>>> In the sciences, this has long been common practice; now the social
>>>> sciences are swept up by the same trend. I have recently been
>>>> bombarded by publishers whose journals have increased in their
>>>> impact factor.
>>>> Furthermore, there are a number of companies that make the rankings
>>>> of their journal a key bit of information on the website.
>>>>
>>>> (Some of) You may be asking what this has to do with you. Well,
>>>> since I have been editing journals (besides MCA, I also do CULTURAL
>>>> STUDIES OF SCIENCE EDUCATION and FQS: FORUM QUALITATIVE SOCIAL
>>>> RESEARCH), I have been asked by new faculty members about rejection
>>>> rates, rankings, etc. And I have been asked by department heads and
>>>> deans as well.
>>>>
>>>> Some may decide to opt out, which would come with dire consequences
>>>> for many, who might find themselves in the position of not being
>>>> tenured or promoted.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, we (MCA) currently are not in ISI Web of Science,
>>>> which places those of you who publish in the journal in an
>>>> unfortunate situation.
>>>>
>>>> One of the ways in which you, the community as a whole can be
>>>> proactive producing the conditions that would convince ISI to make
>>>> MCA one of the listed and ranked journals is to make it a habit to
>>>> cite RECENT articles you have been reading in MCA. Here is why:
>>>>
>>>> The impact factor for 2007 (which is what was made available just a
>>>> few days ago), for example, is calculated using the following
>>>> formula:
>>>>
>>>> Number of citations in 2007 referencing
>>>> articles published in 2005 and 2006 impact factor =
>>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
> ---------------
>>>> Number of citable articles
>>>> published in 2005 and 2006
>>>>
>>>> (They may not take into account self-citation, but I am not sure)
>>>>
>>>> So the impact factor is 1 when a journal had 60 references from the
>>>> outside while having published 60 articles (over 2005 and 2006).
>>>>
>>>> You see, as a community, you can help yourself by citing MCA
>>>> work in
>>>> other journals. With high rankings, MCA will be included in ISI and
>>>> then you and your peers will be rated higher at your institution
>>>> because it is part of ISI.
>>>>
>>>> Have a nice weekend all of you,
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Michael
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wolff-Michael Roth, Editor-in-Chief
>>>> MIND, CULTURE, AND ACTIVITY
>>>> Email: mroth@uvic.ca
>>>> Journal: http://www.tandf.co.uk/journals/1074-9039
>>>> Submissions: http://mc.manuscriptcentral.com/mca
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>
>>>
>>> David Preiss, Ph.D.
>>> Subdirector de Extensión y Comunicaciones Escuela de Psicología
>>> Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Chile Av Vicuña Mackenna - 4860
>>> 7820436 Macul
>>> Santiago, Chile
>>>
>>> Fono: 3544605
>>> Fax: 3544844
>>> e-mail: davidpreiss@uc.cl
>>> web personal: http://web.mac.com/ddpreiss/ web institucional:
>>> http://www.epuc.cl/profesores/dpreiss
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> xmca mailing list
>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>
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David Preiss, Ph.D.
Subdirector de Extensión y Comunicaciones
Escuela de Psicología
Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Chile
Av Vicuña Mackenna - 4860
7820436 Macul
Santiago, Chile

Fono: 3544605
Fax: 3544844
e-mail: davidpreiss@uc.cl
web personal: http://web.mac.com/ddpreiss/
web institucional: http://www.epuc.cl/profesores/dpreiss

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Received on Sat Jul 5 07:33 PDT 2008