[xmca] Re: BIRTHDAY

My Google Calendar Clearly says that I have no events scheduled for today,
so the idea that it is my birthday must be some sort
of irrational error on the part of a rumor monger of unknown, perhaps viral
origin.

On the other other hand, I do feel kind of old so maybe there is some truth
to it.

Greetings to all.
mike

On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 2:34 AM, Alexander Surmava <monada@netvox.ru> wrote:

> Dear Mike,
> many, many, many happy returns of the Day :-), :-), :-), :-), :-), :-)
> Sasha
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> Behalf Of Mike Cole
> Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 9:25 PM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Karpov's Book
>
> Coming again to issues of cultural difference and all these related
> notions
> 70+ years after
> Levy Bruhl, Vygotsky, and Luria were writing, 30/40 years after the post-
> WWII burst of
> cross-cultural research, and in the frenzied concern over
> hyper-globalization and global warming
> might be timely, David.
>
> The contradictions emerging in recent research and theory (the current
> thread about LSV and
> primitive thought, Everett vs Chomsky and whoever on Pidiha language and
> thought, the claims
> made about various "new literacies" are pretty mind bending.
>
> Ignacio- I think a used copy on amazon is most likely the only way to get
> a
> relatively cheap version
> of the Karpov book using the internet.
>
> Martin-- I think David was referring to Karpov's characterization of the
> Uzbeki work, not LSV's but the
> two were both in the message. Keeping straight who said what is a chore!
> mike
>
> On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 7:17 AM, ignacio dalton <iedalton@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > hi david, mike, and all
> > seems interesting to learn more about this book.
> > is there any chance to get it on internet ?
> > ignacio dalton
> >
> > David Kellogg <vaughndogblack@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Sorry, Mike--
> >
> > I know, that last posting had all the complexity of Sun Wukong wandering
> > through the garden of the Emperor of Heaven. I did indeed set out to
> comment
> > on Karpov, but I got distracted by Eugene's golden peaches.
> >
> > Yes, Karpov has the worst of both of the worlds Eugene describes as
> > "cultural historical" and "sociocultural". On the one hand, he thinks
> the
> > Stalinists correctly characterized LSV's position on the Uzbek
> peasantry,
> > and on the other he appears to think that this is a pretty fair view of
> the
> > cognitive abilities of the Uzbeks. I think LSV's real position was
> > anticipating the emergence of a new culture and not applauding the
> > imposition of a "Western" one.
> >
> > Other problems with the Karpov book (The Neo-Vygotskyan Approach to
> Child
> > Development):
> >
> > a) A recapitulationist view of the relationship between cultural history
> > and ontogeny (p. 19)
> >
> > b) The claim that children acquire language 'only if adults "don't
> > understand" nonverbal means of communciation that children try to use in
> the
> > context of their object-centred joint activity and encourge children to
> use
> > words." (p. 129). What possible evidence for such an assertion could
> ever
> > exist? None!
> >
> > c) The belief that object substitutions are also handed down from parent
> > to child (e.g. the child riding a stick will think it is a stick until
> it
> is
> > called a horse by an adult). Again, it's hard to imagine what could be
> > construed as evidence for this. The evidence given does not go very far:
> an
> > adult asks a child what he is cooking and the child answers, truthfully,
> > sticks and rocks. (p. 133)
> >
> > d) "Human progress, in general, occurs when every new generation
> > appropriates the essence of knowledge accumulated by previous
> generations."
> > (p. 185) This is a novel form of Zeno's paradox; it seems to rule out
> the
> > possibility of human progress in principle.
> >
> > e) No crisis. None! Even the adolescent crisis is brought on by the
> > intransigence of parents (p. 212).
> >
> > f) The attempt to integrate the genetically based notion of IQ advocated
> > by Arthur Jensen with Vygotskyan thinking about cognitive development
> (pp.
> > 236-238).
> >
> > All of these points seem to add up to a very CONSERVATIVE view of
> > development; one that is based on a model of cognitive development not
> far
> > from cultural reproduction, and cultural reproduction curiously close to
> > biological reproduction, a mysterious process that adults do and
> children
> > undergo. When you transpose that picture to the "development" of Central
> > Asia, it's not pretty. But for that very reason, I don't think that's
> what
> > LSV or ARL could have had in mind.
> >
> > And here I must confess an interest. I currently have two young Uzbek
> > students, the sort of young people whose enculturation Luria might have
> been
> > looking forward to (one Muslim and one of Korean heritage). I am finding
> > them both kaleidoscopically enculturated, given to surprising
> juxtapositions
> > of language and ideas at almost every turn of a conversation, and I
> wouldn't
> > exactly characterize any of them as "Western".
> >
> > David Kellogg
> > Seoul National University of Education
> >
> >
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Received on Sun Apr 13 09:54 PDT 2008