Re: [xmca] Subject and Self

Oh! Apologies to Valsiner then and apologies to you.
But my comments as to the content of that article stand.
Andy
At 05:49 PM 21/12/2007 -0600, you wrote:

> Andy:
>
>PLEASE do not interpret me as writing FOR valsiner!. I am the one who
>brought up thesis/antithesis/synthesis. I am the one tying valsiner ( and
>subsequently valsiner's theories on developmental psychology) to hegel. I
>apologize if I mislead you into thinking valsiner references hegel. As far
>as I know his only references to hegel would be historical to his work
>regarding Vygotskian theory.
>
>thank you,
>eric
>
>
>
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> cc:
> bcc:
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Subject and Self
>Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
>Sent by: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
>12/22/2007 10:23 AM ZE11
>Please respond to "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <font
>size=-1></font>
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>Eric, unfortunately, the "Essay on Natural Law" (1802) is one of the few
>of Hegel's works which I do not have in paper or electronic form, but I
>think I can respond nonetheless.
>
>Firstly, Valsiner is completely wrong in interpreting Hegel in terms of
>thought as the internal activity of a person, as if Hegel were a follower
>of Husserl or something.
>
>Secondly, Valsiner repeats the crassest of myths about Hegel which is to do
>with thesis-antithesis-synthesis which even a cursory glance at any
>Dictionary of Philosophy or some such textbook could have warned him
>against. (BTW, Marx knew better as well, and in 1843 ridiculed Proudhon for
>recycling this myth. I mention this because I have heard it suggested that
>Vygotsky picked up the thesis-antithesis-synthesis myth from Marx).
>
>Thirdly, within Hegel's view of human psychology, the whole is definitely
>not the individual person.
>
>Fourthly, given the above errors, the author tries valiantly to explain
>what development and sublation means for Hegel, but I think he really tells
>us little.
>
>If I recall correctly, many years ago I had a very brief correspondence
>with Valsiner in which Valsiner also rejected Marx's aphorism "Human
>anatomy contains a key to the anatomy of the ape." But that's by the by. If
>you are looking to Valsiner as a road into Hegel, Eric, I would suggest you
>try a different route.
>
>Does that help Eric?
>
>Andy
>
>At 10:02 AM 21/12/2007 -0600, you wrote:
>
> >Hello Andy: Back when I had the time and thought I would move beyond
>being
> >a practioner and tried my hand at serious writing I attempted the
>following
> >definition of developmental, as in Developmental Psychology. Please
> >critique?
> >thank you,
> >
> >
> >eric
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Developmental: Jaan Valsiner in his book Culture and the Development of
> >
> >
> >Children's Actions claims,
> >
> >
> > The developmental approach entails a look at the transformation of
> >
> >
> > organizational forms of systems, in their relations with their
> >
> >
> > environments. The actual occurrence of a transformation is
>detectable
> >
> >
> > after it has taken place, yet the interest of researchers in
> >
> >
> > development is fueled by the desire to learn, before a
>transformation
> >
> >
> > takes place, what it might be like, and often to try to modify it
>in
> >
> >
> > some desirable direction by way of intervention. The developmental
> >
> >
> > perspective has to deal with the uncertainties of transition
>between
> >
> >
> > the present and the immediate future; in fact, the focus on
>emergence
> >
> >
> > is a focus on the making of the new present out of possibilities
> >
> >
> > projected into the future (pp. 9-10).
> >
> >
> >The synthesis of Valsiner's present developmental theories can be traced
> >
> >
> >back to Lev Vygotsky's writing concerning the development of human
> >
> >
> >consciousness. Vygotsky writes, "A certain stage of development and the
> >
> >
> >process itself can only be fully understood when we know the endpoint of
> >
> >
> >the process, the result, the direction it took, and the form into which
>the
> >
> >
> >given process developed (Vygotsky, 1997a, pg. 235)." Vygotsky's view
> >
> >
> >regarding development can be directly linked to Hegel's dialectic
> >
> >
> >philosophy (Vygotsky, 1997b, Valsiner, 1997). The basis for accepting a
> >
> >
> >dialectically constructed psychological theory is founded in Hegel's
> >
> >
> >philosophy of dialectic thinking.
> >
> >
> > Hegel writes about an absolute truth, referred to as "The Idea" (Pg
> >
> >
> >57, Natural Law), which exists within a subjective reality that is tied to
> >
> >
> >infinite variables. Imagine upon waking in the morning you chose to not
> >
> >
> >participate in the scheduled activities of your day. This, of course, is
>an
> >
> >
> >option as well as during all other subjective moments of your day. More
> >
> >
> >often then not responsible people choose to participate in their scheduled
> >
> >
> >activities. Just because the majority of people plan their use of
> >
> >
> >subjectivity does not prove there is only a finite set of possible actions
> >
> >
> >within each waking moment. Hegel writes, " . . .as the infinite, is the
> >
> >
> >absolutely finite; as the indeterminate, is absolute determinacy. That
> >
> >
> >absolute transition into its contradictory, which is its essence, and the
> >
> >
> >disappearance of every reality into its opposite can be checked in no way
> >
> >
> >other than by preceding empirically, fixing one of the two aspects (i.e.,
> >
> >
> >reality or the subsistence of the opposites) and abstracting from the
> >
> >
> >contradictory, the nullity of this subsistence (Hegel, 1975, pg. 71)."
> >
> >
> >Those who are responsible have indeed made the absolute transition into
>the
> >
> >
> >contradictory of irresponsible and subsequently the irresponsible do not
> >
> >
> >have a fixed reality to comprehend the subsistence of their opposite. The
> >
> >
> >importance to remember about Hegel's dialectic is that it can be seen as a
> >
> >
> >continuum of existences that represent a transition from one reality to
> >
> >
> >another through something he terms sublation (Spencer & Krauze 2001).
> >
> >
> > Hegel's sublation was subsequently translated into a philosophical
> >
> >
> >dictum that has become to be understood as all human situations being the
> >
> >
> >result of a thesis and an antithesis resulting in a synthesis (Spencer &
> >
> >
> >Krauze 2001). When this theoretical construct concerning synthesis is
> >
> >
> >considered it can be compared to how Vygotsky viewed the development of
> >
> >
> >human behavior (Valsiner 1988, Valsiner 1997). The beginning of the
> >
> >
> >dialectic is the notion of truth existing within the whole and that within
> >
> >
> >this whole is a process that has phases but taken individually none of
> >
> >
> >these stages can exist independent of the whole (Spencer & Krauze 2001).
> >
> >
> >Within the study of human psychology the whole is considered to be the
> >
> >
> >development of the person. Within the theoretical construct of dialectic
> >
> >
> >thinking is the concept that achieving a particular stage of development
> >
> >
> >does not presume that the previous stage has disappeared or is subservient
> >
> >
> >to the more advanced thinking level but that the new developmental stage
>is
> >
> >
> >an evolution of that which came prior, dependent upon the integrity of all
> >
> >
> >previous and present psychological processes (Vygotsky, 1999).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Andy
> > Blunden
> >
> > <ablunden@mira.n To: "eXtended Mind,
> > Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > et> cc:
> >
> > Sent by: Subject: Re: [xmca]
> > Subject and Self
> > xmca-bounces@web
> >
> > er.ucsd.edu
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 12/20/2007
> > 06:13
> >
> > PM
> >
> > Please
> > respond
> >
> > to
> > "eXtended
> >
> > Mind,
> > Culture,
> >
> > Activity"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Eric, my interest in this was stimulated by the opening sentence of
>Hegel's
> >
> >1802 "System of Ethical Life":
> >
> > "Knowledge of the Idea of the absolute ethical order
> >depends entirely on the establishment of perfect
> > adequacy between intuition and concept, because the Idea
> >itself is nothing other than the identity of
> > the two. But if this identity is to be actually known, it
> >must be thought as a made adequacy."
> >
> >http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/se/introduction.htm
> >
> >In this sentence read for "intuition" Sensation or ideography and for
> >"concept" read Reason or nomology. The Idea is human life, but it's unity
> >(in the 1802 system) is the outcome of history, not its starting point.
>The
> >
> >institutions and products of the world and how they ought to be, have to
>be
> >
> >in tune with one another. In the world to begin with, before it can be in
> >thought as such.
> >
> >Andy
> >At 09:26 AM 20/12/2007 -0600, you wrote:
> >
> > >Steve:
> > >
> > >Thank you for the question. Initially I was drawn to the
> > >idiographic/nomothetic distinction because of reading Vygotsky's crisis
> >and
> > >discussing the article on xmca. As always my best thinking (in my
>mind?)
> > >is done when I discuss articles. Valsiner references Vygotsky's crisis
>in
> > >his introduction. Going further in history ( one of the reasons I
> > >appreciate Valsiner so much is his emphasis on history when he writes)
> > >Valsiner describes the Erklaren-Verstehen dichotomy that was introduced
>by
> > >Droyson in 1858 and later elaborated on by Dilthey (a researcher
> >referenced
> > >by Vygotsky in Crisis). This distinction was that Verstehen
> > >(understanding) was the goal for the science of the mind and that
>Erklaren
> > >(expalining) was the goal for the physical sciences.
> > >
> > >A quote from page 10 of his introduction to the volume:
> > >
> > >" The study of individual cases has always been the major (albeit often
> > >unrecognized) strategy in the advancement of knowledge about other human
> > >beings. Medical science. . .everyday life. . .the handling of such
>unique
> > >problems in everyday life is of utmost importance for the
>problem-solving
> > >individuals, who have to adopt a case-study approach to them. However,
> > >case studies in the social sciences have often been labeled "soft"
>science
> > >because they are indeed aspects to them that do not satisfy the
> > >requirements of the so-called "hard" sciences: existence of controls,
> > >replicability of measurement, separation of independent and dependant
> > >variable and so on. "
> > >
> > >Isaac Frank's chapter 1, "Psychology as a science: resolving the
> > >idiographic-nomothetic controversy" relies greatly on Allport's quest
>for
> >a
> > >proper method for studying psychology. Frank quotes Allport, 1961,
>p.10:
> > >"we do not need to understand every life in order to discover the lawful
> > >regularities in one life. If you have intimate friend, you may know
>very
> > >well why he behaves as he does. . because you know the lawful
>regularities
> > >in his life."
> > >
> > >I could go on if interested but for now I'll ask,
> > >
> > >"what do you think?"
> > >
> > >eric
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Steve
> > > Gabosch
> > >
> > > <sgabosch@comcas To: "eXtended Mind,
> > > Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > > t.net> cc:
> > >
> > > Sent by: Subject: Re: [xmca]
> > > Subject and Self
> > > xmca-bounces@web
> > >
> > > er.ucsd.edu
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 12/19/2007
> > > 08:20
> > >
> > > PM
> > >
> > > Please
> > > respond
> > >
> > > to
> > > "eXtended
> > >
> > > Mind,
> > > Culture,
> > >
> > > Activity"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Eric, what passages/ideas from Valsiner or others in this volume most
> > >interest you on this topic? I would be pleased to hear your
> > >thoughts, favorite quotes, etc.
> > >- Steve
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >On Dec 19, 2007, at 9:21 AM, ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > For those interested in the Nomothetic/Idiographic distinction please
> > > > reference Valsiner's The individual subject and scientific
>psychology.
> > > > 1986, Plenum Press
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
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> >
> > Andy Blunden : http://home.mira.net/~andy/ tel (H) +61 3 9380 9435,
> >mobile 0409 358 651
> >
> >_______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
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> >
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>
>Andy Blunden : http://home.mira.net/~andy/ tel (H) +61 3 9380 9435,
>mobile 0409 358 651
>
>_______________________________________________
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  Andy Blunden : http://home.mira.net/~andy/ tel (H) +61 3 9380 9435,
mobile 0409 358 651

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Received on Fri Dec 21 16:16 PST 2007