Re: [xmca] epigenesis

Thoughts? sure:

"Descent attaches itself to the body. It inscribes itself in the nervous
system, in temperament, in the digestive apparatus; it appears in faulty
respiration, in improper diets, in the debilitated and prostrated bodies of
those whose ancestors committed the errors... [our] task is to expose a body
totally imprinted by history and the process of history's destruction of the
body" Foucault, "Nietzsche, Genealogy, History"

On 10/27/07 4:14 PM, "Emily Duvall" <emily@uidaho.edu> wrote:

> Thanks Cathrene...
> Yes, indeed, the common response is to focus on the brain and serotonin
> levels... and Gary does take Zoloft...:-)
> However, Martin has peaked my curiosity with regard to DNA methylation
> along the lines of the inheritability due to the changes in somatic
> cells.
> Several things are interest to me here... yes, my daughter Isis, but
> also the nature of 'inherited racial memory' or 'cultural memory'.
> Any thoughts?
>
> ~ Em
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> On Behalf Of Cathrene Connery
> Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 12:48 PM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [xmca] epigenesis
>
> Hi Emily et al.,
> My VERY UNscientific understanding is that when individuals are exposed
> to repeated, long-term,random events in which their mental and physical
> lives are continually threatened, the make up of the brain is changed at
>
> the chemical level. The neurons are flooded with hormones, altering
> synaptic abilities. The use of serotonin uptake drugs (SSRs like
> Zoloft) helps to restore electrical impulses so the individual is not
> arrested in a constant state of fight or flight. There was a group of
> researchers working on this area at the University of Washington in the
> late 90's. I don't remember their names but I want to say that Dr. Lori
> Rollner was a part of the group. Perhaps you can contact the chair of
> their psychiatry department. I wish I could be of more help.
> Best,
> Cathrene
>
> Emily Duvall wrote:
>> HI Martin and all,
>> Please forgive me for not following all this - the defense is coming
> up
>> - but could I get a little more information on the PBS documentary?
> I'm
>> particularly interested in the idea the PTSD could be 'inherited'. I
>> know that the change in the physiology/chemical make-up of my
> husband's
>> brain (he was in recon, in Viet Nam) is something that the PTSD
>> treatment folks at the VA have emphasized. I hadn't thought about this
>> at the molecular level in quite this way, however. I would be very
>> interested in learning more about this.
>> I'm also thinking about this in terms of the child-soldiers.
>> You mention the methylation of the DNA - I know very little about
> this,
>> but can the sheath be regenerated?
>> ~ Emily
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>> On Behalf Of Martin Packer
>> Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 11:32 AM
>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] epigenesis
>>
>> Paul,
>>
>> The PBS documentary includes discussion of a retrospective analysis of
>> data
>> over at least 3 generations in a relatively isolated Scandanavian
>> community:
>> in particular, records of births and deaths (with cause of death) and
>> annual
>> harvest yields. The focus of the documentary was not merely on the
>> epigenetic pathways of individual development (e.g. that genetically
>> identical twins diverge in their patterns of gene expression over the
>> years), which is a notion that's been around for a while, but on
>> mechanisms
>> of *inheritance* of epigenetic pathways. So post-traumatic stress in
> one
>> generation may well be *inherited* by children and even
> grand-children.
>> To
>> my knowledge this is a new idea, and one for which the mechanisms are
>> now
>> being worked out (methylation of the DNA, I think).
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>> On 10/26/07 1:49 PM, "Paul Dillon" <phd_crit_think@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I'm looking forward to learning mmore about the research in that
> field
>>>
>> by
>>
>>> definition it would seem to require a study that tracked three or
>>>
>> more
>>
>>> generations of families at both that genetic and socio-cultural
> levels
>>>
>> which
>>
>>> is 90 years for humans populations. That's long after I'll be
>>>
>> following
>>
>>> all of this. :)
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>> Bruce Robinson <bruce@brucerob.eu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Paul Dillon wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jay,
>>>>
>>>> Any possible answer your question " . . . why is the model of
>>>> gene-determinism so appealing, almost a religion today, both among
>>>>
>> molecular
>>
>>>> biologists and the lay public? Why has it been so easy for the media
>>>>
>> to
>>
>>>> spread this gospel?"
>>>>
>>> I was pleasantly surprised to hear human genome mapper (and would be
>>> privatiser) Craig Venter dissociate himself from crude genetic
>>> determinism in an interview he gave to the BBC Today programme. He
>>>
>> came
>>
>>> out against the one to one 'a gene for...' idea, talked about the
>>>
>> social
>>
>>> environment of development interacting with genetic tendencies and
>>>
>> being
>>
>>> more important in a whole range of behaviour, as well as, in a
> comment
>>> on the Watson controversy, describing race as a social construct with
>>>
>> no
>>
>>> scientific basis. So there clearly are exceptions. But I do accept
>>>
>> that
>>
>>> genetic determinism is pervasive and think Jay is right to point to
>>>
>> the
>>
>>> resulting fatalism about social inequality as a cause, perhaps less
> as
>>> an excuse for people to do nothing and more as a justification of why
>>> things are the way they are in the first place. This is not new -
> Marx
>>> pointed to Darwin's drawing on Malthus and his picture of nature
>>> reflecting the model of competitive capitalism.
>>>
>>> Bruce R
>>>
>>>> would seem to require an adequate theory of why any "knowledge
>>>> system/ideology" is dominant in a given society at a given time.
> From
>>>>
>> the
>>
>>>> perspective of the classic Marxist model, i.e., "dominance of the
>>>>
>> ideas of
>>
>>>> the dominant economic forces" , the dominance of the genetic
> metaphor
>>>>
>> in
>>
>>>> contemporary capitalist societies seems to provide a text book case.
>>>>
>> The
>>
>>>> primary client for the products of the bio-technology and
>>>>
>> pharmaceutical
>>
>>>> industries in which most geneticists is the health care industry
> (15%
>>>>
>> of US
>>
>>>> GDP) , then there's the GMO dominance in capitalist agriculture.
>>>>
>> Along with
>>
>>>> cybenetics , genetic technologies , suffuse the fabric of modern
>>>>
>> economic
>>
>>>> activity.
>>>>
>>>> But that's only a formal cause and although probably a necessary
>>>>
>> condition
>>
>>>> for the ideological dominance of some branch of knowledge, still
>>>>
>> insufficient
>>
>>>> to answer your question. I think one of the effective causes at the
>>>> psychological level , might have to do with the utopian futures
>>>>
>> genetics
>>
>>>> provides the "cult of eternal youth" , likewsie a root metaphor of
>>>>
>> popular
>>
>>>> consumer culture. The promised developments of genetic technologies
>>>>
>> certainly
>>
>>>> have that Utopian dimension, better futures quality that makes of
>>>>
>> good
>>
>>>> ideology.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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Received on Sat Oct 27 13:56 PDT 2007