RE: [xmca] The Evolution of CHAT

Mohamed Elhammoumi prepared a master bibliography of Vygotsky material
back in 1992-3. At that time it was 100-200 pages long and included
references from Viet Nam, Latin America, etc where Vygotsky studies have
been moving forward all this time. He is now Associate Prof. in the
Department of Psychology, College of Social Sciences at Imam Muhammad
Ibn Saud Islamic University in Saudi Arabia.

Helena Worthen, Clinical Associate Professor
Labor Education Program, Institute of Labor & Industrial Relations
University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign
504 E. Armory, Room 227
Champaign, IL 61821
Phone: 217-244-4095
hworthen@uiuc.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
On Behalf Of Mike Cole
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 5:25 PM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: Re: [xmca] The Evolution of CHAT

Yep, that is a great idea, Steve.
I'll bet there is a web-based mechanism for helping get this done in an
orderly way, where
everyone can contribute knowing they are not duplicating anything. I'll
contact a great local
librarian who is very savvy about such matters. And a lot could be done
by
links. For example,
Nate has a wonderful collection of relevant materials at marxists.org.
Thanks to the prodding
of Pablo del Rio, we put all the old lchc newsletters online .......

Perhaps someone at XMCA has a good suggestion for how to do it.
mike

On 9/8/07, Steve Gabosch <sgabosch@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> On this discussion on collectively articulating the historical ideas
> behind CHAT here on xmca - and perhaps creating a symposium on the
> question at ISCAR next year - fantastic proposals! - here is an
> idea. Something very useful that could come out of such efforts
> might be the creation of a master bibliography of core and other
> influential writings regarding CHAT.
>
> Collectively, much of this information is actually at our
> fingertips. Three sources immediately occur to me: 1) books,
> articles and documents on people's bookshelves, in their filing
> cabinets, and on their computers 2) bibliographies in published
> writings 3) writings assigned in relevant college courses.
>
> I wonder if there is way we could collect such a master list from
> ourselves, and produce in a way that people could download. (And if
> we want to be really ambitious, keep adding to). With such a master
> bibliography people could experiment with ways of presenting it, or
> selected parts of it, in ways that suit their own perspective, which
> in turn might help them develop narratives from their outlook to
> explain relationships between ideas, people, writings, events, etc.
> in CHAT history. Such a tool could help all CHAT-influenced people
> participate in being historians of CHAT, each in their own way.
>
> - Steve
>
>
>
> At 05:27 PM 9/6/2007 -0700, Mike Cole wrote:
> >HUGE FONT FOR HUGE QUESTION!!!
> >Now for the small print - read with care)
> >(I volunteer to do this work on condition that members of xmca
complete
> two
> >grant proposals required in next few weeks, prepare for,
> >and teach my fall classes! I will provide a cot and key to LCHC to my
> >substitute at UCSD during this time period. And when I am done,
> >like the dragon's teeth that Jason stirred up looking for the golden
> fleece,
> >a thousand better informed colleagues will point out the
> >total idiocy of my interpretation of history)
> >
> >Now, feeling all springy and cool after the passing fit of local hot
air,
> I
> >will say that
> >I think it would be most useful, if there is genuine interest in such
> >historical excavation,
> >exegesis, and exciting prospects, that it be (shhhhh) a collective
> effort.
> >
> >There are books written on this topics, several chapters of books
about
> >which some members
> >of xmca are presumably knowledgeable because their names are attached
to
> >them, as well as
> >many papers written on this topic in many languages, and hot disputes
> about
> >this topic in several
> >world capitals as we stare at our screens. There is even a lot to be
> found
> >by goggling on lchc.
> >
> >For the moment (I am about to join my family after a long day of
work) I
> >append a graphical genaeology (sp?) created by Arne Raeithel that may
> >indicate some of the territory to be covered in a way some will find
> useful.
> >I have a few documents around the lab I can dig up that most will
> >not know about that are relevant. But this topic, if people really
want
> to
> >engage it, requires willingness of many to cooperate in a
collaborative
> >archeaology of ideas.
> >
> >Perhaps this would make an interesting general symposium at ISCAR
next
> year,
> >if the organizers, wherever they are hiding, ever get around
> >to making public their plans for that august occasion.
> >
> >mike
> >
> >
> >On 9/6/07, Worthen, Helena Harlow <hworthen@ad.uiuc.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > I second the request from Cathrene Connery and Donald James
Cunningham
> > > to hear from some who have tried how they (you) present CHAT. The
> > > historical perspective (behaviorism, cognitive science,
sociocultural
> > > perspectives) seems like a necessary one. But what were the
problems
> at
> > > each point that pushed things onward?
> > >
> > > Helena
> > >
> > >
> > > Helena Worthen
> > > Clinical Associate Professor
> > > Labor Education Program
> > > Institute of Labor & Industrial Relations
> > > 504 E. Armory, Room 227
> > > Champaign, IL 61821
> > > Phone: 217-244-4095
> > > hworthen@uiuc.edu
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
[mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > > On Behalf Of Cathrene Connery
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 5:59 PM
> > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > Subject: [xmca] The Evolution of CHAT
> > >
> > > Tony Whitson wrote:
> > > > Don,
> > > >
> > > > Sorry for the delay in responding to this -- but I think it's a
> useful
> > >
> > > > question for discussion in this group.
> > > >
> > > > I want to respond quickly on another point before getting to
your
> main
> > >
> > > > question about teaching CHAT.
> > > >
> > > > First, you write:
> > > >> I've taught the usual suspects (behaviorism,
> > > >> Bandura, Piaget, cognitive information processing) for years
and
> have
> > > a
> > > >> pretty good idea about them but would appreciate some help on
CHAT.
> > > >
> > > > Where I am, students have learned a story about how once upon a
time
> > > > the world was ruled by the behaviorists, but they've been
vanquished
> > > > by the (scientifically, pedagogically, politically, and morally)
> > > > superior forces of Cognitive Science. They think that's where
the
> > > > story ends (as in the "End of History" celebrated since Daniel
Bell
> in
> > >
> > > > the early 60's, where history completes itself with the
universal
> > > > triumph of capitalism).
> > > >
> > > > I think it's important for students to learn about what's
happening
> > > > "beyond cognitivism." For me, this is not just a matter of
theory or
> > > > intellectual politics: My students just won't understand
anything
> I'm
> > > > saying or doing unless they understand that I'm addressing an
> ontology
> > >
> > > > in which cognition cannot be understood except as it is embedded
in
> > > > the broader (not only cognitive) projects and processes of being
and
> > > > becoming. CHAT takes this stance against reductive cognitivism,
and
> > > > CHAT cannot be understood (IMHO) without recognizing this. I
think
> > > > Wenger & the Communities of Practice literature perhaps makes
this
> > > > point more directly and accessibly, although details have not
been
> > > > theorized as extensively as in CHAT. Curriculum theory -- my own
> home
> > > > turf -- has always approached education as a matter of ontology,
not
> > > > merely cognition (i.e., not just Knowing, but Being and
Becoming).
> > > >
> > > > So, I would want to tell the story of behaviorist hegemony
giving
> way
> > > > to cognitivist hegemony, which in turn is being challenged by a
turn
> > > > to the broader perspective of social ontology. This is not to
say
> that
> > >
> > > > the reductivist ideology of cognitivISM is replaced by an
ideology
> of
> > > > postcognitivISM (see my post at http://postcog.net ); Nor is it
a
> call
> > >
> > > > for hegemonic "postcognitivism" in place of hegemonic
cognitivism.
> > > >
> > > > One good source is Lave, Jean. "Teaching, as Learning, in
Practice."
> > > > Mind, Culture, and Activity 3, no. 3 (1996): 149-64.
> > > > I think this particular point might come through more strongly
in
> > > > Lave, Jean. "Learning as Participation in Communities of
Practice."
> > > > Paper presented at the American Educational Research
Association,
> San
> > > > Francisco 1992.
> > > > (This paper is now linked from http://postcog.net/#Lave . This
is
> the
> > > > paper Jean presented in the symposium that David Kirshner and I
> > > > organized, which grew into our book _Situated Cognition_,
although a
> > > > different piece was used as her chapter in the book. The MCA
article
> > > > includes aspects of the AERA paper, although its scope is
broader
> and
> > > > the social ontology argument may be less central to the complete
> > > > published article.)
> > > >
> > > > With regard to your main question, you write:
> > > >> [I] was wondering if any of you would be
> > > >> willing to share with me (and other XMCAers) how you present
CHAT.
> I
> > > >> mean, I don't think undergrads are going to be too interested
in
> the
> > > >> distinction between action and activity or working out the
concept
> of
> > > >> "object". Or am I wrong?
> > > >
> > > > This could be a very interesting discussion for XMCA.
> > > > As you suggest, for an undergrad Ed Psych class, it might be
best to
> > > > streamline CHAT a bit. However, I don't think the
differentiation
> > > > among the three levels of activity, action, and operations is
> > > > dispensable. I think it's necessary to see activities and
activity
> > > > systems emerging on a social/cultural level beyond consciously
> > > > goal-oriented action, and to see the role of routinized
operational
> > > > activity that does not require conscious attention.
> > > >
> > > > It would be helpful to develop introductory approaches for this
> > > > audience. Starting points could include the resources at
> > > > http://www.edu.helsinki.fi/activity/pages/chatanddwr/
> > > > and
> > > > Roth, Wolff-Michael, and Yew-Jin Lee. ""Vygotsky's Neglected
> Legacy":
> > > > Cultural-Historical Activity Theory." Review of Educational
Research
> > > > 77, no. 2 (2007): 186-232.
> > > > as well as
> > > > pp. 27-47 in Spinuzzi, Clay. Tracing Genres through
Organizations: A
> > > > Sociocultural Approach to Information Design. Cambridge, Mass.:
MIT
> > > > Press, 2003.
> > > > and
> > > > pp. 29-72 ("Activity Theory in a Nutshell") in Kaptelinin,
Victor,
> and
> > >
> > > > Bonnie A. Nardi. Acting with Technology: Activity Theory and
> > > > Interaction Design. Cambridge, Mass.: MIT Press, 2006.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, Cunningham, Donald James wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> And in a week or so, I will begin teaching an undergraduate
class
> in
> > > >> "Educational Psychology" for future teachers. It has been a few
> years
> > > >> since I taught such a class and was wondering if any of you
would
> be
> > > >> willing to share with me (and other XMCAers) how you present
CHAT.
> I
> > > >> mean, I don't think undergrads are going to be too interested
in
> the
> > > >> distinction between action and activity or working out the
concept
> of
> > > >> "object". Or am I wrong? I've taught the usual suspects
> (behaviorism,
> > > >> Bandura, Piaget, cognitive information processing) for years
and
> have
> > > a
> > > >> pretty good idea about them but would appreciate some help on
CHAT.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Don Cunningham
> > > >> Indiana University
> > > >>
> > > >> Ancora Imparo!
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > > >> On Behalf Of Mike Cole
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 6:13 PM
> > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > >> Subject: [xmca] mediational theories of mind: Suggestions
requested
> > > >>
> > > >> Dear Xmca-ites---
> > > >>
> > > >> Toward the end of the month I will begin teaching a grad course
on
> > > >> mediational theories of mind.
> > > >> I would love suggestions for interesting readings.
> > > >> We will be looking in a sort of "mcLuhanesque" way at the
> affordances
> > > of
> > > >> different kinds of mediators
> > > >> in human action/activity/mind.
> > > >>
> > > >> So, language and thought
> > > >> writing
> > > >> film
> > > >> music
> > > >> tv
> > > >> rituals
> > > >> games
> > > >> .........
> > > >>
> > > >> Starting with early 20th century writers of general familiarity
to
> > > >> members
> > > >> of this list, I have been thinking about including
> > > >> such works as Cszikentmihalyi, "meaning of things," Turkle's
> recent
> > > >> "evocative objects," and perhaps something on mediated
> > > >> behavior in large groups such as "the wisdom of crowds."
> > > >>
> > > >> Any and all suggestions warmly welcomed. So much going on its
hard
> to
> > > >> even
> > > >> think about how to begin to think about this
> > > >> upcoming fall!!
> > > >>
> > > >> mike
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> xmca mailing list
> > > >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> xmca mailing list
> > > >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > Tony Whitson
> > > > UD School of Education
> > > > NEWARK DE 19716
> > > >
> > > > twhitson@udel.edu
> > > > _______________________________
> > > >
> > > > "those who fail to reread
> > > > are obliged to read the same story everywhere"
> > > > -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970)
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > Hi everyone:
> > > Tony's eloquent characterization of "behaviorist hegemony giving
way
> to
> > > cognitivist hegemony, which in turn is being challenged by a turn
to
> the
> > >
> > > broader perspective of social ontology" is well put. How CHAT is
> being
> > > presented to the rugged individualists (albeit mythological
entities)
> in
> > >
> > > our teacher ed programs is of interest to me as well. It would
> further
> > > be helpful for CHAT neophytes like myself to hear how those of you
who
> > > have shaped CHAT view how the domain has genetically evolved and,
in
> > > some cases, splintered (i.e. the differences between sociocultural
> > > theory vs. activity theory). Thanks for engaging in an
interesting
> > > discussion. I realize this topic has already been hashed out
on-line
> > > previously, but it was Lev that said we only truly know something
when
> > > we view it in motion.
> > > Cathrene
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dr. M. Cathrene Connery
> > > Assistant Professor of Education
> > > 607.274.7382
> > > Ithaca College
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> >
> >Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="Arne Genealogy.jpg"
> >Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Arne Genealogy.jpg"
> >X-Attachment-Id: f_f69y3ae5
> >
> >_______________________________________________
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>
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Received on Thu Sep 13 13:01 PDT 2007