[xmca] Genealogy & the Evolution of CHAT

Hi everyone:
Thanks to Mike for the interesting graphic by Arne Raethell. It is a
beautiful heuristic and psychological tool. The notion of putting
together a session at ISCAR on this topic is actually a very good one
...and while the complexity of the task may appear to require the
spacial / relational intelligence of a cab driver from Chicago or
London, I believe that by elucidating the major thoroughfares, back
alleys, and main streets associated with CHAT would invite more
participants into the larger discussion.

Like Mike, we are all swamped right now and are likely to be heading to
the gym or the bar. (Perhaps I am the only person on the East Coast
still in her office on Friday at 5:00 p.m.?) However, if the weight of
this question could be amicably shouldered by the collective,
distributed intelligence and historical memory of this list serve, I
think the task is doable. What if everyone took a deep breath, typed
the stem "In the beginning...." and wrote in a stream of conscious
fashion knowing that there is a younger generation of scholars, an eager
audience, who need and look up to your guidance? One or two paragraphs
would be enough. Perhaps people on the list serve could agree to
disagree in advance without challenging others interpretations? The
results might be very interesting: a multi-dimensional prism
highlighting the many colors / interpretations of the field.

The CHAT community is unique among list serves exhibiting a comraderie
and respect other electronic conversations don't reflect. If each
person could highlight a piece of the puzzle related to their interest,
we'd have a fascinating mosaic from which we could co-construct
individual and perhaps, a collective vision. Besides, we don't want
Mike to go through life out of breath, experiencing his responsibilities
to the list serve like one of those slick TV wrestlers who heaves bodies
across the ring. As far as the cot and key are concerned, if there
are any opportunities to do post-doc work, please let me know!
Happy Friday,
Cathrene

Mike Cole wrote:
> HUGE FONT FOR HUGE QUESTION!!!
> Now for the small print - read with care)
> (I volunteer to do this work on condition that members of xmca complete two
> grant proposals required in next few weeks, prepare for,
> and teach my fall classes! I will provide a cot and key to LCHC to my
> substitute at UCSD during this time period. And when I am done,
> like the dragon's teeth that Jason stirred up looking for the golden fleece,
> a thousand better informed colleagues will point out the
> total idiocy of my interpretation of history)
>
> Now, feeling all springy and cool after the passing fit of local hot air, I
> will say that
> I think it would be most useful, if there is genuine interest in such
> historical excavation,
> exegesis, and exciting prospects, that it be (shhhhh) a collective effort.
>
> There are books written on this topics, several chapters of books about
> which some members
> of xmca are presumably knowledgeable because their names are attached to
> them, as well as
> many papers written on this topic in many languages, and hot disputes about
> this topic in several
> world capitals as we stare at our screens. There is even a lot to be found
> by goggling on lchc.
>
> For the moment (I am about to join my family after a long day of work) I
> append a graphical genaeology (sp?) created by Arne Raeithel that may
> indicate some of the territory to be covered in a way some will find useful.
> I have a few documents around the lab I can dig up that most will
> not know about that are relevant. But this topic, if people really want to
> engage it, requires willingness of many to cooperate in a collaborative
> archeaology of ideas.
>
> Perhaps this would make an interesting general symposium at ISCAR next year,
> if the organizers, wherever they are hiding, ever get around
> to making public their plans for that august occasion.
>
> mike
>
>
> On 9/6/07, Worthen, Helena Harlow <hworthen@ad.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
>> I second the request from Cathrene Connery and Donald James Cunningham
>> to hear from some who have tried how they (you) present CHAT. The
>> historical perspective (behaviorism, cognitive science, sociocultural
>> perspectives) seems like a necessary one. But what were the problems at
>> each point that pushed things onward?
>>
>> Helena
>>
>>
>> Helena Worthen
>> Clinical Associate Professor
>> Labor Education Program
>> Institute of Labor & Industrial Relations
>> 504 E. Armory, Room 227
>> Champaign, IL 61821
>> Phone: 217-244-4095
>> hworthen@uiuc.edu
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>> On Behalf Of Cathrene Connery
>> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 5:59 PM
>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> Subject: [xmca] The Evolution of CHAT
>>
>> Tony Whitson wrote:
>>
>>> Don,
>>>
>>> Sorry for the delay in responding to this -- but I think it's a useful
>>>
>>> question for discussion in this group.
>>>
>>> I want to respond quickly on another point before getting to your main
>>>
>>> question about teaching CHAT.
>>>
>>> First, you write:
>>>
>>>> I've taught the usual suspects (behaviorism,
>>>> Bandura, Piaget, cognitive information processing) for years and have
>>>>
>> a
>>
>>>> pretty good idea about them but would appreciate some help on CHAT.
>>>>
>>> Where I am, students have learned a story about how once upon a time
>>> the world was ruled by the behaviorists, but they've been vanquished
>>> by the (scientifically, pedagogically, politically, and morally)
>>> superior forces of Cognitive Science. They think that's where the
>>> story ends (as in the "End of History" celebrated since Daniel Bell in
>>>
>>> the early 60's, where history completes itself with the universal
>>> triumph of capitalism).
>>>
>>> I think it's important for students to learn about what's happening
>>> "beyond cognitivism." For me, this is not just a matter of theory or
>>> intellectual politics: My students just won't understand anything I'm
>>> saying or doing unless they understand that I'm addressing an ontology
>>>
>>> in which cognition cannot be understood except as it is embedded in
>>> the broader (not only cognitive) projects and processes of being and
>>> becoming. CHAT takes this stance against reductive cognitivism, and
>>> CHAT cannot be understood (IMHO) without recognizing this. I think
>>> Wenger & the Communities of Practice literature perhaps makes this
>>> point more directly and accessibly, although details have not been
>>> theorized as extensively as in CHAT. Curriculum theory -- my own home
>>> turf -- has always approached education as a matter of ontology, not
>>> merely cognition (i.e., not just Knowing, but Being and Becoming).
>>>
>>> So, I would want to tell the story of behaviorist hegemony giving way
>>> to cognitivist hegemony, which in turn is being challenged by a turn
>>> to the broader perspective of social ontology. This is not to say that
>>>
>>> the reductivist ideology of cognitivISM is replaced by an ideology of
>>> postcognitivISM (see my post at http://postcog.net ); Nor is it a call
>>>
>>> for hegemonic "postcognitivism" in place of hegemonic cognitivism.
>>>
>>> One good source is Lave, Jean. "Teaching, as Learning, in Practice."
>>> Mind, Culture, and Activity 3, no. 3 (1996): 149-64.
>>> I think this particular point might come through more strongly in
>>> Lave, Jean. "Learning as Participation in Communities of Practice."
>>> Paper presented at the American Educational Research Association, San
>>> Francisco 1992.
>>> (This paper is now linked from http://postcog.net/#Lave . This is the
>>> paper Jean presented in the symposium that David Kirshner and I
>>> organized, which grew into our book _Situated Cognition_, although a
>>> different piece was used as her chapter in the book. The MCA article
>>> includes aspects of the AERA paper, although its scope is broader and
>>> the social ontology argument may be less central to the complete
>>> published article.)
>>>
>>> With regard to your main question, you write:
>>>
>>>> [I] was wondering if any of you would be
>>>> willing to share with me (and other XMCAers) how you present CHAT. I
>>>> mean, I don't think undergrads are going to be too interested in the
>>>> distinction between action and activity or working out the concept of
>>>> "object". Or am I wrong?
>>>>
>>> This could be a very interesting discussion for XMCA.
>>> As you suggest, for an undergrad Ed Psych class, it might be best to
>>> streamline CHAT a bit. However, I don't think the differentiation
>>> among the three levels of activity, action, and operations is
>>> dispensable. I think it's necessary to see activities and activity
>>> systems emerging on a social/cultural level beyond consciously
>>> goal-oriented action, and to see the role of routinized operational
>>> activity that does not require conscious attention.
>>>
>>> It would be helpful to develop introductory approaches for this
>>> audience. Starting points could include the resources at
>>> http://www.edu.helsinki.fi/activity/pages/chatanddwr/
>>> and
>>> Roth, Wolff-Michael, and Yew-Jin Lee. ""Vygotsky's Neglected Legacy":
>>> Cultural-Historical Activity Theory." Review of Educational Research
>>> 77, no. 2 (2007): 186-232.
>>> as well as
>>> pp. 27-47 in Spinuzzi, Clay. Tracing Genres through Organizations: A
>>> Sociocultural Approach to Information Design. Cambridge, Mass.: MIT
>>> Press, 2003.
>>> and
>>> pp. 29-72 ("Activity Theory in a Nutshell") in Kaptelinin, Victor, and
>>>
>>> Bonnie A. Nardi. Acting with Technology: Activity Theory and
>>> Interaction Design. Cambridge, Mass.: MIT Press, 2006.
>>>
>>> On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, Cunningham, Donald James wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> And in a week or so, I will begin teaching an undergraduate class in
>>>> "Educational Psychology" for future teachers. It has been a few years
>>>> since I taught such a class and was wondering if any of you would be
>>>> willing to share with me (and other XMCAers) how you present CHAT. I
>>>> mean, I don't think undergrads are going to be too interested in the
>>>> distinction between action and activity or working out the concept of
>>>> "object". Or am I wrong? I've taught the usual suspects (behaviorism,
>>>> Bandura, Piaget, cognitive information processing) for years and have
>>>>
>> a
>>
>>>> pretty good idea about them but would appreciate some help on CHAT.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Don Cunningham
>>>> Indiana University
>>>>
>>>> Ancora Imparo!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>
>> [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>>
>>>> On Behalf Of Mike Cole
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 6:13 PM
>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>>> Subject: [xmca] mediational theories of mind: Suggestions requested
>>>>
>>>> Dear Xmca-ites---
>>>>
>>>> Toward the end of the month I will begin teaching a grad course on
>>>> mediational theories of mind.
>>>> I would love suggestions for interesting readings.
>>>> We will be looking in a sort of "mcLuhanesque" way at the affordances
>>>>
>> of
>>
>>>> different kinds of mediators
>>>> in human action/activity/mind.
>>>>
>>>> So, language and thought
>>>> writing
>>>> film
>>>> music
>>>> tv
>>>> rituals
>>>> games
>>>> .........
>>>>
>>>> Starting with early 20th century writers of general familiarity to
>>>> members
>>>> of this list, I have been thinking about including
>>>> such works as Cszikentmihalyi, "meaning of things," Turkle's recent
>>>> "evocative objects," and perhaps something on mediated
>>>> behavior in large groups such as "the wisdom of crowds."
>>>>
>>>> Any and all suggestions warmly welcomed. So much going on its hard to
>>>> even
>>>> think about how to begin to think about this
>>>> upcoming fall!!
>>>>
>>>> mike
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
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>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
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>>>>
>>>>
>>> Tony Whitson
>>> UD School of Education
>>> NEWARK DE 19716
>>>
>>> twhitson@udel.edu
>>> _______________________________
>>>
>>> "those who fail to reread
>>> are obliged to read the same story everywhere"
>>> -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970)
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> xmca mailing list
>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>
>> Hi everyone:
>> Tony's eloquent characterization of "behaviorist hegemony giving way to
>> cognitivist hegemony, which in turn is being challenged by a turn to the
>>
>> broader perspective of social ontology" is well put. How CHAT is being
>> presented to the rugged individualists (albeit mythological entities) in
>>
>> our teacher ed programs is of interest to me as well. It would further
>> be helpful for CHAT neophytes like myself to hear how those of you who
>> have shaped CHAT view how the domain has genetically evolved and, in
>> some cases, splintered (i.e. the differences between sociocultural
>> theory vs. activity theory). Thanks for engaging in an interesting
>> discussion. I realize this topic has already been hashed out on-line
>> previously, but it was Lev that said we only truly know something when
>> we view it in motion.
>> Cathrene
>>
>> --
>> Dr. M. Cathrene Connery
>> Assistant Professor of Education
>> 607.274.7382
>> Ithaca College
>>
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>>
>>
>>
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-- 
Dr. M. Cathrene Connery
Assistant Professor of Education
607.274.7382
Ithaca College
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