RE: [xmca] Emotion at Work

Many aspects of the situation Wolff-Michael
describes in the fish hatchery with Erin and Jack
- layoffs, new management, new policies,
initiative from workers ignored, solidarity among
workers, negative attitudes, arguments with
management, budget cuts, threats of job cuts -
remind me of hundreds of similar situations I
have experienced in the aircraft manufacturing
plants I worked at for many years, and just
retired from (yea!!). A complex work
environment like a fish hatchery or a mega
manufacturing company tends to exaggerate the
dynamics and contradictions of everyday activity
- the class conflicts in particular between
people are more pronounced and expressed in more
specific ways in a larger production oriented
workplace than is typically found in a shopping
mall, neighborhood, or even a school, where
conflicting needs and motives between and within
people are always there but tend to be more
smoothed over and less obvious. As Helena
indicates, in workplaces, especially if there is
open activity supporting workers (organizing a
union, getting a better contract, fighting for
better working conditions, opposing
discrimination), deeper social questions rise to
the surface and can become explicit. And it most
certainly is a world of many emotions, emotional
payoffs, varying emotional payoffs, which is
Wolff-Michael's most important point - emotions are very much at work at work.

A way I try to make sense of the zillion
conflicts between people that can be observed in
a large factory or any work environment is to try
to get a handle on what a person's concrete needs
and motives are. There is usually much more
going on than meets the eye. Sometimes, even the
persons involved are not fully aware of (able to
fully articulate verbally) the multiple needs and
motives that are driving them and the people
around them. Helena points to a very common
conflict, between participating in production and
earning a living - layoff situations. During a
layoff, as with Erin, the relationship between
these two activities becomes problematic. I have
sure seen that many times! I have been through
several waves of massive layoffs at Boeing, which
tends to have a cyclical production cycle, and
emotions certainly do run high on the job during
these very difficult situations.

Safety issues are another arena where
"participating in production" can conflict with
worker's self-interests. Although people are not
necessarily fully conscious of it, these issues
get resolved almost minute to minute in dynamic
ways, sometimes resolved by choosing to get
something fixed or changed, generating potential
conflicts with supervision, sometimes resolved by
working around or through the safety or health
issue, perhaps just accepting the wear and tear
on one's body and taking other little
risks. These issues can hide beneath the surface
for a while and then break out more dramatically
when someone gets hurt or something otherwise
goes wrong (and then the fingerpointing begins,
where needs and motives may get openly
debated). Helena alludes to this when she
points out how safety questions, especially
incidents and near misses, are really good ways
to get people to talk about their jobs. Part of
what makes these stories so interesting is the
way they reveal conflicting needs and motives,
between labor and management, between different
workers with different tasks, between a worker and herself or himself.

Another area of conflicting motives and needs I
have seen over the years: during union activity
that could result in a strike, solidarity can
come into conflict with earning a living. Some
contemplate crossing a picket line, a
particularly dramatic example of dealing with
conflicting motives in a work situation - and one
with consequences that are likely to generate
very tense emotional valences, sometimes for a long time after.

- Steve

At 07:17 PM 8/4/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>Andy --
>
>Almost. It's not the *key* fact about emotion.
>However, when there is conflict between the
>bottom line and the attempt to earn a living,
>that conflict shapes the knowledge that people
>bring to bear on resolving the conflict.
>Sometimes there is no conflict. Either way, the
>kind of knowledge that people develop in order
>to survive and protect or improve their jobs is
>emotionally charged, and that emotion can be
>seen to have been shaped by the social relations of their work.
>
>Take symphony orchestra players -- for example,
>the Milwaukee symphony. They organized a union
>(based on the example of the Chicago symphony)
>back in the 1970's or earlier. When they started
>bargaining, the job of a symphony musician was a
>terrible job. (To check out what a "bad" job for
>performers is, take a look at the Washington DC
>ballet.) Over the course of 30 years, the
>Milwaukee job has become better and better. The
>musicians have a considerable amount of power --
>over the choice of program, the hiring of a
>conductor, the hiring of new musicians, loans
>for instruments, conditions while touring, etc.
>Whether the city can afford the good working
>conditions is another question. Negotiating an
>incrementally better contract year after year
>takes knowledge. That knowledge has an emotional
>valence, positive valence -- to use Wolff-Michael's terms.
>
>At the other extreme, remember the Sago mine
>tragedy? There was one survivor. While he was in
>a coma, his wife was interviewed on television.
>She described how she and her husband had talked
>about how dangerous the mine was. The problem
>was that if he left the mine, she'd have to go
>to work, and there was no job she could get that
>would pay enough to support them and cover
>childcare. The actual level of danger, the
>immediacy of the danger, was unknown to them,
>although that information existed. This was a
>mine that had been closed but reopened when the
>price of gas rose and coal became economically
>viable. It was a non-union mine. The calculation
>that she and her husband made about his
>likelihood of surviving his job was deeply
>fatalistic. This is a case where someone knew he
>was engaging in very dangerous work but just
>went ahead and did it because he felt he had no other choice.
>
>People do work all the time that exposes them to
>risks, and they know it, and sometimes they know
>how to do something about it and sometimes they
>just shrug their shoulders and say, "I can't do anything about it."
>
>This body of knowledge about how to survive a
>job, and how to protect or improve it, is common
>across all kinds of work. Symphony musicians can
>talk to grocery clerks can talk to social
>workers can talk to prison guards can talk to
>teachers about what they know about it. The
>emotions are all over the map, depending on
>their job, but the knowledge is something they have in common.
>
>Helena Worthen
>NEW EMAIL: hworthen@uiuc.edu
>Chicago Labor Education Program
>Suite 110 The Rice Building
>815 West Van Buren Street
>Chicago, IL 60607
>312-996-8733
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
>[mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden
>Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 1:39 AM
>To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>Subject: RE: [xmca] Emotion at Work
>
>That's fascinating Helena. I feel I've got to know you for the first time.
>Thank you.
>
>Just to clarify: you are saying that conflict (interpreted as conflict
>between activity systems, endowing actions with conflicted motivations,
>significance, etc.) is *the key* fact about emotion. yes? Would you go any
>further than this? Or is this too narrow?
>
>Andy
>At 07:04 PM 3/08/2007 -0500, you wrote:
> >Hello -- I'll try to respond to Wolff-Michael, Andy and Paul all together,
> >since all three are picking up on my claim that two, not one activity
> >systems are taking place in the fish hatchery where the employees that
> >Wolf-Michael observed are working. I especially want to reply to Andy's
> >question, "If someone were to deny that, say, earning and living and
> >producing a product, were two different activity systems, how would you go
> >about justifying that?"
> >
> >It has to do with what you're trying to do, what you need the theory to be
> >able to show or explain.
> >
> >Wolff-Michael's discussion article is an effort to enrich and expand the
> >theory itself, and I thank him for doing that. He is writing "as part of
> >an effort to develop third-generation-historical activity theory," and to
> >incorporate emotion, motivation and identity into that theory. If you
> >picture his audience, he's speaking to other researchers and the academic
> >community generally. His data contributes to this effort.
> >
> >I'm dealing with a different problem. I'm trying to explain something that
> >is going on in my classes. However, I can't do it without ALSO speaking
> >to the same audience as Wolff-Michael and engaging with theory. This is
> >because theory is an indispensable tool for successful practice. But I'm
> >trying to answer the question, "How do we explain the intense emotion with
> >which the learning produced at work is charged?"
> >
> >In my job as a labor educator for the University of Illinois, I teach
> >people about work from the point of view of workers. This means everything
> >from labor history, labor law, basics of representation and bargaining to
> >job design, including safety. Just as in any teaching, I have to find out
> >what my students, most of whom are working adults, already know in order
> >to figure out how and what to teach them. This is axiomatic in teaching
> >kids and undergraduates -- you build on prior knowledge, right? But when I
> >start to investigate what my adult students know, I find it charged with
> >strong -- sometimes extreme -- emotion. It has other characteristics as
> >well, but the one that surfaces immediately in the classroom is this
> >emotion. It can run the gamut from despair to pride to gratitude to
> >bitterness. Whatever it is, that's what a teacher has to build on. For my
> >practice as a teacher, I need theory that can account for this. As
> >Wolff-Michael shows, this emotion is integral to the cognitive activity
> >going on. The cognitive activity is not "cool," it's hot. Where does this
> >emotion come from? Thus my investment in seeing CHAT developed to account
> >for emotion.
> >
> >Sociocultural learning theory generally assumes that social context has a
> >powerful, if not fully determinative impact on learning. The Engestrom
> >model -- the famous triangle -- gives us a representation of what we mean
> >by "social context." Andy, since you ask about "unit of analysis," I'll
> >respond by saying that I'm happy with the concept of "unit of analysis"
> >and furthermore, I like Engestrom's model as an image of the unit of
> >analysis of an activity system. It's a concise way to visualize all the
> >things you have to think about when you ask, of a situation, "What's going
> >on here?" or of a person or group of people, "What are they doing here?"
> >The Engestrom model leads me to ask, "What's the nature of the division of
> >labor that I'm looking at?" "Who is the community out of which these
> >people have been selected?" "What are the history, the traditions, the
> >customs, the rules of this activity?" "What are they using -- what
> >material or cultural tools, what resources or equipment?" and most
> >important, "Why are they doing what they're doing?"
> >
> >One of the things you can do with that model is talk about how it
> >transforms and expands, moves via contradictions from one activity to
> >another, is part of a network of activity systems or is nested in other
> >activity systems (I'm looking at Engestrom 1987 Figure 2.11 and 2.12,
> >here). All I've done is place one activity system opposite another
> >activity system to represent that there is a conflict between the two
> >activity systems. One is the activity system of production, the other is
> >the activity system of earning a living.
> >
> >This is the image I propose to represent the difference between the kind
> >of learning activity that workers engage in when learning how to do the
> >work they are hired to do, as opposed to the kind of learning activity
> >that workers engage in when they are learning how to survive at their job
> >or how to protect or improve their working conditions. These two activity
> >systems are driven by different motives. Sometimes there is no conflict
> >between them but sometimes the conflict is extreme. Either way, we need to
> >be able to theorize what's going on. Either way, the social relationships
> >of those activity systems impact the learning activity and leave their
> >mark on it. It seems reasonable to me that that is where the emotion comes
> >from.
> >
> >Other major theories of learning do not have the potential to be developed
> >in this direction. Some theories of learning are individual (Kolb). But
> >even among theories that treat learning as a collective activity
> >-- distributed cognition, legitimate peripheral participation,
> >communities of practice, human capital theory -- we don't hear about
> >conflict. Sometimes this doesn't matter. When we're talking about school
> >learning or informal learning such as second language acquisition outside
> >school, we may not need to be able to talk about the conflicting purposes
> >of the site where the learning is being produced. But if we're talking
> >about working adults (of whom there are a lot), we do need to be able to
> >surface the reality that what people learn in order to meet the demands of
> >production is sometimes in conflict with what people learn in order to
> >survive their jobs, and that this conflict generates emotions which, as
> >Wolff-Michael puts it, "are integral to the cognitive activity."
> >
> >The easiest stories to elicit from students that illustrate this conflict
> >are stories about safety incidents -- accidents, near misses, etc.
> >
> >Helena
> >
> >
> >
> >Helena Worthen
> >NEW EMAIL: hworthen@uiuc.edu
> >Chicago Labor Education Program
> >Suite 110 The Rice Building
> >815 West Van Buren Street
> >Chicago, IL 60607
> >312-996-8733
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> >Behalf Of Paul Dillon
> >Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 5:56 AM
> >To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> >Subject: Re: [xmca] Emotion at Work
> >
> >Helena,
> >
> > As I read your comments I found the first activity system
> > described/named but not the second except insofar as you identified it's
> > object: making a living, which you contrasted to the object of the first
> > activity system: being a fish culturist. But the first activity system,
> > the focus of the discussion paper, was also clearly identified in other
> > activity theoretic categories in your comments. Perhaps Wollf-Michael is
> > right in saying there is only one activity system. But if we, adopting
> > Marx's categories as Engestrom applied them, consider that the use-value
> > of being a fish-culturist is doing the best job and getting the biggest
> > and healthiest fish as a member of the entire team, while the
> > exchange-value of that job is for each member of the system "making a
> > living", the fundamental condition of wage labor, is the problem
> > resolved? I don't remember any analysis of the contradictions
> > between use value and exchange value of the fish culturist's labor in
> > the paper.
> > Not too sure about this expanding power stuff either.
> >
> > I don't know if Engestrom has changed his position about the
> > contradictions between use and exchange value in activity systems but
> > perhaps that would account for your concern which seems to be addressing
> > the class character of all labor in capitalist economies. Our ability to
> > participate in "this or that activity" is a function of the market for
> > the labor commodity, no matter how skilled. Certainly,when one does the
> > best job they can but still gets laid off, frustration and resentment
> > arise. I'm not sure whether the term "wage-laborer", someone who haas to
> > "make a living", as opposed to someone who inherited a lot of money for
> > example, is a category of a specific activity system or one of the
> > principles of all activity systems in capitalist economies. The latter
> > is how I understand Engestrom when he evaluates how ithis contradiction
> > works itself out in the different vertices.
> >
> > As far as production, distribution, exchange, consumption in the
> > Grundrisse, Marx's analysis in that work showed how production was
> > determinant of the of the others despite their ability to be analyzed in
> > terms of each other. Hence commodity production as determines the
> > specific characteristics of the other elements of the economic system as
> > a whole.
> >
> > Paul Dillon
> >
> >
> >Wolff-Michael Roth <mroth@uvic.ca> wrote:
> > Hi Helena,
> >I am sure all appreciate your extensive comments as much as I do. The
> >one question I have is about the two activity systems and how you see
> >them as operating in the hatchery.
> >
> >I think if you took Marx's Capital, or perhaps rather Klaus
> >Holzkamp's extension of Leont'ev, you would think of one rather than
> >of two systems. As individuals, we expand our own room to maneuver---
> >control over our life situation---if we contribute to the collective
> >control over life conditions. By participating in this or that
> >activity (Tätigkeit, deyatel'nost'), we expand our person control---
> >we buy food, clothing, a roof over our head, etc.
> >
> >Now you COULD see it as two systems, but the second would be an
> >integral and constitutive part of the first, just as Yrjö (1987)
> >cites the GRUNDRISSE, where Marx writes how production can be
> >analyzed in terms of consumption, exchange, distribution, and
> >production; and each of these terms in turn can be analyzed in terms
> >of production, consumption, distribution, and exchange. Thus
> >productive activity, such as working in a fish hatchery, involves
> >exchange processes---but whether these constitute activity
> >(Tätigkeit, deyatel'nost') is another question, which is answered
> >when you ask, so what is societal about this?
> >
> >Thanks again for your careful reading,
> >
> >Cheers,
> >
> >Michael
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >On 1-Aug-07, at 9:20 AM, Helena Harlow Worthen wrote:
> >
> >Hello, xmca --
> >
> >I hope this response is not too late to re-engage in the discussion
> >of Wolf-Michael's paper "Emotion at Work." It always seems to take me
> >a while to work my way through a paper. By the time I get through it,
> >and then read through the discussion, the discussion has started to
> >fade. In addition, I tend to write pretty long responses because I
> >come to these discussions as a labor educator and therefore imagine,
> >rightly or wrongly, that I have to load up my contribution with some
> >explicit explanations. So apologies for the long post and the late
> >contribution, but I'm very interested in hearing anyone's reply.
> >
> >Helena Worthen
> >
> >
> >Comments on Wolf-Michael Roth's paper, Emotion at Work (MCA14, 1-2)
> >
> >
> >
> >Wolf-Michael follows the work experience of two employees at a
> >federal fish hatchery in Canada over a period of five years, with a
> >return visit one year after the five-year period. In this article, he
> >is concerned with investigating the relationship between emotions and
> >motivation and identity for the purpose of incorporating these into
> >activity theory, which he says has tended toward being a theory of
> >"cold cognition." He compares the emotions, motivation and work
> >identities of two employees, Erin and Jack, to show how their
> >feelings about their work relate to their motivation and identity -
> >or more specifically, how their emotions about their expertise at
> >work and the degree to which it is valued in the workplace affect
> >their motivation to do their work and consequently, their identity as
> >workers.
> >
> >Bringing emotion into the discussion of the production of knowledge
> >at work is very important, and this ethnographic study provides
> >plenty of material. As someone whose job (labor education) consists
> >of teaching employees about the social relations of employment from
> >the perspective of workers, I appreciate attempts to approach the
> >profoundly important question of how people feel about what they know
> >and how this affects what they learn on the one hand and what they do
> >with what they know on the other hand. Since learning goes on all the
> >time at work, and since the success or failure of both workers and
> >workplaces is tightly related to what is learned and what is done
> >with that knowledge, this is a question of general interest to both
> >employees and management.
> >
> >
> >
> >However, I would argue that Wolf-Michael's study would benefit from a
> >step which would have to be taken early in the analysis. I would like
> >to see the comparison of the emotional valence of Erin and Jack's
> >deployment of their expertise framed in terms of not one activity
> >system but two. First is the activity system of production and second
> >is the activity system of earning a living. Through the division of
> >labor of the first system, Jack and Erin are fish culturists, engaged
> >in fish feeding, ordering feed, cleaning the fishpond and other
> >actions that contribute to the overall activity of fish hatching (p.
> >45). In this first system, their goal-directed actions are consistent
> >with the collective motive of the hatchery: hatching fish. But
> >through the division of labor of the second, they are employees who
> >are trying to earn a living. Not always, but sometimes, these two
> >activity systems conflict, with resulting tensions between the
> >emotions, motivations and identities associated with them. Wolf-
> >Michael notes that Jack and Erin could be doing the same actions in a
> >backyard fish pond, where they would also be engaged in a different
> >activity system (motivated by recreation, not production or earning a
> >living), but he doesn't distinguish between the two activity systems
> >that are taking place at the workplace - fish hatching and earning a
> >living.
> >
> >
> >
> >For example: Wolf-Michael's description of Erin's voice pitch as she
> >analyses the computer generated plot of fish length and weight
> >(rising pitch, positive valence of emotion) is taken from a moment
> >when she is talking about her work in the activity system of fish
> >hatching. He does not provide a description of her voice pitch when
> >she is talking about the changes undertaken by the new management or
> >the impending layoffs, although he does report that at the time when
> >she is being laid off, the emotions expressed through voice pitch (p.
> >50) are wider in range and there are "many more emotional outbursts
> >with large differences" (p 52). I would have said here that we're
> >looking at the emotional tension between Erin's pride in her
> >expertise as a fish culturist and her anger as an employee at being
> >laid off - one activity system (fish culturing) is going well and the
> >other (earning a living) is going badly. If we are looking at two
> >systems, we can understand why Erin, for example, might feel proud
> >and committed with regard to her work as a fish culturist but anxious
> >and even bitter with regard to her job, and that these two emotions
> >would be in tension with each other.
> >
> >
> >
> >Similarly, Wolf-Michael's description of Jack's emotional state could
> >also benefit from being understood as the tension between being
> >engaged in two conflicting activity systems at once. Wolf-Michael
> >gives us more information about Jack. Although he is a gifted and
> >conscientious fish culturist who developed some original experiments
> >and did research that at first got some recognition, the hatchery is
> >now under the new management and support for his professional
> >development has evaporated. He is seeing doors of opportunity
> >closing. He's understandably angry and cuts back on his investment in
> >the fish hatchery beyond what he has to do to earn a living: he re-
> >calibrates his commitment to being just an employee.
> >
> >
> >
> >Separating out these two activity systems early in the analysis
> >allows us to see how the knowledge or expertise produced within each
> >of them becomes charged with emotional valence. Wolf-Michael proposes
> >"positive" and "negative" labels for this valence, which we might
> >expand by proposing pride, enthusiasm, elation, curiosity, anxiety,
> >disappointment, fear, anger, bitterness, etc - some of these are Wolf-
> >Michael's. This separation would open the door in two directions.
> >In one direction we would look outward to the pressures on that
> >workplace from society which are typically transmitted through
> >management into a workplace. In the other direction we would look to
> >see the relationship between individual workers and the collective of
> >workers. Activity theory helps us hold these two perspectives steady
> >while we investigate what is going on in each of them.
> >
> >
> >
> >Looking outward, in order to really understand the social
> >relationships of a workplace and thereby to interpret how people are
> >behaving and feeling, we need to be explicit about the industrial
> >relations system within which that workplace is operating. We need to
> >look closely at the concrete reality of the division of labor that
> >has sorted some people into management, others into employees (or in
> >this case, two people into management, five into fish culturalists,
> >two into maintenance/administrative assistant staff workers, and
> >perhaps thirty into seasonal employees). Looking inward, we need to
> >understand what kind of solidarity (Michael's word in page 59,
> >although he notes it as something that "fuels invidiaul short-and
> >long-term emotional states") is available to the employees. These two
> >dimensions, both easily approached through activity theory, will give
> >us the concrete reality of the kind of control that the managers have
> >(or don't have) over the work done by Jack, Erin and the other
> >employees. How was this division of labor established and how is it
> >maintained? What are its edges and limits? What are the resources of
> >the employees? The answers to these questions would provide the
> >framework, or matrix, within which the emotions that Wolf-Michael is
> >writing about are generated.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Wolf-Michael tells us a few things about the concrete social
> >relationships of the hatchery, so that we can extrapolate what is
> >probably going on. There are 18 federal fish hatcheries in this
> >province and this one employs 2 managers, 5 culturists, a maintenance
> >person and an administrative assistant, and up to 30 seasonal temps.
> >This means that there are not a lot of alternative jobs for fish
> >culturists (especially for one like Jack who has only a high school
> >education) so that keeping one's job is very important. There is new
> >management and thus probably new employment practices on the agenda.
> >Costs are closely watched to the point of choosing what kind of feed
> >to give the fish and whether to drive 50 kilometers to exchange a set
> >of keys, and the survival of hatchery is always in question (p. 53).
> >We can't tell much more than this, except that "collectively, then,
> >there was a sense that things were going from bad to worse" (p. 56).
> >It would help if we knew what the overall agenda of the new
> >management was with regard to budget and target number of employees;
> >that, after all, is the overarching framework of the social
> >relationships of the workplace which are being experienced by the
> >employees. If we were looking at this material as an activity system
> >in which managers were trying to manage a workplace during a period
> >of budget cuts and downsizing, and employees were trying to earn a
> >living and protect or improve working conditions (including job
> >security and earnings) at that same workplace, we could understand
> >the emotional valence in which the knowledge of how to do these
> >complementary and conflicting activities becomes charged.
> >
> >
> >
> >It's within the workforce, obviously, not between the two managers,
> >that the "sense that things were going from bad to worse" is
> >generated. Wolf-Michael notes this: "Interactions with the new
> >managers were laden with conflict" (p. 57). We are now looking at
> >Jack as a member of the workforce, and Erin as a member of the
> >workforce - them as employees, not as fish culturists. Not
> >surprisingly, Jack - who as an older employee (he was in fact once
> >Erin's mentor) has fewer options in case he is laid off - resorts to
> >his knowledge of how to behave as just an employee - not someone who,
> >as a fish culturist, gives 300%, but someone who as an employee
> >calculates how to invest the least effort for the highest return. He
> >works to rule and minimizes contact with the new management.
> >
> >
> >
> >Finally, in the absence of making the distinction between the two
> >activity systems that are going among the workers at the fish
> >hatchery at the same time (hatching fish and earning a living), we
> >have a hard time making sense of what we're reading on several
> >accounts. The fish hatchery is referred to as a "collective."
> >Although we are not told much about the collective solidarity of the
> >workforce, it sounds as if Jack is pretty isolated in his withdrawal
> >into work to rule. When we get to the final section on page 59 where
> >Wolf-Michael is talking about the phenomenon of collective emotion
> >and its connection to individual emotion,it sounds as if he's saying
> >that everyone who works at the fish hatchery, the new management
> >included, is part of the collective. I would argue that the
> >collective is not the whole hatchery including the new management,
> >but that it's the employees for whom the hatchery is a way to earn a
> >living. This essence, which can be left in the background when
> >budgets are generous and jobs are secure, jumps into the foregrand
> >during a period of layoffs and budget cuts, which is what is
> >happening in this fish hatchery.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Helena Worthen
> >
> >University of Illinois Labor Education Program
> >
> >Institute of Labor and Industrial Relations
> >
> >hworthen@uiuc.edu
> >
> >
> >
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> >---------------------------------
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> Andy Blunden : http://home.mira.net/~andy/ tel (H) +61 3 9380 9435, AIM
>identity: AndyMarxists mobile 0409 358 651
>
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Received on Sun Aug 5 07:17 PDT 2007