Hi Sonja and everyone,
Thanks for your translation of perezhivanie and the corresponding reference. After reading Vygotsky's writings on the topic, I have used the terminology "lived experience" and felt it insufficiently represented the transactive dimension of the concept. "Lived-through" accounts for human agency as well as the dialectic between the interpersonal & intrapersonal experience. Interestingly, I have met native Russian speakers who were not familiar with the term, although it might have been reflective of their own funds of knowledge.
Have a nice day!
Cathrene
M. Cathrene Connery, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of Bilingual & TESL Education
Central Washington University
>>> Sonja Baumer <sbaumer@gmail.com> 1/14/2007 2:30 PM >>>
hi cathrene and others,
here is my response to your question about the translation of
PEREZHIVANIE into english:
in our previous work (see baumer et al, 2005) we translated
perezhivanie as LIVED-THROUGH EXPERIENCE. the translation is
necessarily descriptive as we could not find english word that would
allow us to distinguish between PEREZHIVANIE and OPIT -- both of which
are translated in english as EXPERIENCE.
If u r a german speaker, a parallel distinction in german can be made
between ERLEBNIS and ERFAHRUNG.
i am not so fluent in german and russian, but the distinction seemed
important to me, especially after reading stanislavski who also wrote
about PEREZHIVANIE. let us know what your friends with more expertise
in german and/or russian than myself had to say about that :-)
sonja
On 1/12/07, Cathrene Connery <ConneryC@cwu.edu> wrote:
> Hi Volker and everyone:
> Thanks for taking the time to provide us with quotes regarding the dialectical nature of the ZPD from the German translation you referred to. While I am not fluent in German, I have some friends that are and will call on their expertise to help translate the text you quoted.
>
> The issue of translation can make a huge difference in our transaction with and interpretation of Vygotsky's writings. I have struggled especially with the concept of perezhivanie / perezhivanija. Would anyone like to take a stab at this one?
>
> Gratefully,
> Cathrene
>
> M. Cathrene Connery, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor of Bilingual & TESL Education
> Central Washington University
>
> >>> "Volker.hippie" <Volker.hippie@tele2adsl.dk> 1/11/2007 2:44 AM >>>
> Dear Cathrine, in "Denken und Sprechen", translated by Lompscher and
> Rückriem, I felt in love with the term, on page 253: "Aus dieser
> specifischen Zusammenarbeit zwischen Kind und Erwachsenem, die ... das
> zentrale Moment im Bildungsproces darstellt, erklärt sich die frühe
> Reifung wissenschaftlicher Begriffe sowie der Umstand, dass ihr
> Entwicklungsniveau als *Zone der nächsten Möglichkeiten (Zone for next
> possibilities) *hinsichtlich der Alltagsbegriffe wirkt, indem er ihnen
> als eine Art Propädeutik den Weg bahnt".
>
> Page 32: Um nachzuahmen, muss ich die Möglichkeit haben, von dem, was
> ich kann, zu dem überzugehen, was ich nicht kann.
>
> I would like to give you some more quotes, but first I have to ask, -
> are you able to read German? In a way it would not make meaning to
> translate fx the term "Bildungsproces", because as I know they do not
> have a word for it, in English. "Bildung" is another one, of this funny
> words, where Bildung means to get educated, not only as we understand to
> learning, but, too, as socializing to a democratic human member of the
> world community.
>
> You could find the same passages in the translation by Kozulin, 1986, or
> Sevé, 1997, but for me , Lompscher/Rückriem (with the assistance of
> Elena Kravtsova, Ghita Vygodskaya) have been able to translate the words
> by Vygotsky in a way, as they express in the start of the book, closest
> to the Russian original text. - I don't know if that is the "really" the
> case, ...
>
> Volker
>
>
>
>
> Cathrene Connery skrev:
> > Hi Volker,
> > Thanks for the interesting comments. Is it possible to select a quote / selection regarding the ZPD from the text you mentioned and post it for the list serve?
> > Feliz dia (Have a happy day),
> > Cathrene
> >
> > M. Cathrene Connery, Ph.D.
> > Assistant Professor of Bilingual & TESL Education
> > Central Washington University
> >
> >
> >>>> "Volker.hippie" <Volker.hippie@tele2adsl.dk> 1/10/2007 8:59 AM >>>
> >>>>
> > Yes, and the ZPD reminds me of the term Gibson used to describe
> > perception in a way, which made it possible to bridge between the
> > objective and subjective perception, which he named "/affordances/".
> >
> > and I agree with Armando, the ZPD is something between the individual
> > and the other(s) - and it gets facilitated by common joint activities.
> >
> > But that does not mean, that I can not take what I learn in a ZPD with
> > me, to others places, other and maybe even more developmental ZPD's.
> >
> >
> > Just a thought, - that the real fantastic principles in psychology are
> > not either/or individual/collective principles, but both, at the same
> > time, in a dialectical way.
> >
> > It is therefore so wonderful to read Vygotsky - ´cause nobody has,
> > IMHO, come up with a clearer description of the ZPD than made by
> > Vygotsky in Denken und Sprechen, 2002, which is the translation by
> > Lompscher et al. .
> >
> > Volker
> >
> > Armando Perez skrev:
> >
> >> Eric: I dont like to look at ZPD as individual but as
> >> a colective interperson al situation. This means that
> >> ZPD do not belong to an individual but it is
> >> constructed or co-constructed. I also work in
> >> educational aplication of Vygotsky and I am tried to
> >> unified the concept od ZPD and Social Situation odf
> >> Development. What do you think about that
> >> Armando
> >>
> >>
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