echo freely
Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote: Can I echo your praise for xmca Paul. It is a truly amazing and priceless
phenomenon, thanks to the efforts and abilities of the participants in
maintaining a meaningful, inclusive and mutually respectful conversation.
The xmca-ers discuss is a model for us all.
Andy
At 02:59 PM 23/12/2006 -0800, you wrote:
>Eric,
>
> Thanks for the compliment but I think that of the many learned scholars
> on xmca, I occupy a minor position if I can be considered a "scholar" at
> all. There are and have been since I started participating in xmca in
> 1996 a lot of truly brilliant minds and also a lot of scholars too have
> been present. But scholars publish, which is something I rarely
> do. Right now my main project is a movie about a 16th century native
> andean chronicler. My other significant project, on the back burner while
> developing the movie, is getting the public schools and universities in
> Peru to adopt online learning. These are really more practical projects
> and don't result in the same kinds of products that scholars produce.
>
> But I love learning and totally agree with you about xmca being a place
> where interactions between all kinds of folks with people who are very
> learned in different fields of studies and others do occur. I've
> learned a lot over the years and try to keep up with at least one thread
> at any given time but they happen so fast and the contributions are often
> so detailed that it is pretty hard to do that. Nevertheless, I would
> have to say that it is my favorite classroom/online seminar and I wish
> that I could get the students in my online critical thinking class to
> participate in discussions the way people on xmca participate.
>
> Paul
>
>ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org wrote:
>
>Paul:
>
>Very true that there is no agreement at the present time but I do not
>believe this precludes the impossibity of such an agreement. Discussions
>and give and take across disciplines is extremely fruitful in moving
>towards an agreement. I beleive XMCA is a zoped that allows a schlep
>teacher such as myself to enter into discourse with such a learned scholar
>such as yourself. No sarcasm intended. I view myself as a practitioner
>and not a researcher or theorist. Thank you greatly for your time.
>
>eric
>
>
>
>Paul Dillon
>
>
>yahoo.com> cc:
>Sent by: Subject: Re: [xmca] perhaps. . . sensei
>xmca-bounces who-is-at web
>er.ucsd.edu
>
>
>12/21/2006 11:53
>AM
>Please respond
>to "eXtended
>Mind, Culture,
>Activity"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Eric,
>
>I don't think the idea of a "cultural systems" has a "theoretical
>construct" upon which all anthropologists agree (or any others who use the
>concept of culture) so I think the zpd and culture are about at the same
>level in this sense. I say this as a practicing anthropologist (ie, one
>actively involved the study of "culture", in my case Andean culture) which
>is also the field in which I have my advanced degrees.
>
>Like the zpd , "culture" can be looked at from a lot of perspectives.
>There are different schools of thought about it, there is no paradigm (in
>the Kuhnian sense) for "culture" or for "cultural systems" so the problem
>is just moved back one level when you use that concept to talk about the
>limitations of another one.
>
>Nevertheless, both culture and zoped are extremely useful concepts for a
>variety of practical and theoretical applications. Maybe the desire to
>have scientific concepts that resemble those of the natural sciences is
>just starting of on the wrong foot when dealing with the socio-cultural
>(and by implication psychological) level.
>
>Paul
>
>ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org wrote:
>
>Paul:
>As a metaphor Vygotsky's ZPD explains his thinking very well, as a
>
>
>theoretical construct it does not have the capacity to be analyzed in a
>
>
>manner that separates an individual's systems from the cultural systems
>
>
>which are elucidating and canalizing an individual's developments,
>
>
>subsequently Valsiner has dissected Vygotsky's ZPD into three zones that
>
>
>not only explain human development more precisely but provide
>
>
>methodological tools that allow researchers to discuss developmental
>
>
>systems with more specific lucidity.
>
>
>Valsiner separated Vygotsky's ZPD into three different zones that he
>
>
>labeled the Zone of Free Movement (ZFM), the Zone of Promoted Action (ZPA)
>
>
>and a much more specific Zone of Proximal Development (ZPD). When I
>
>
>introduced his "Process structure of semiotic mediation" paper a few months
>
>
>back it did not meet with much support. I do not want to spend much time
>
>
>discussing his more specific zone approach because that as well may not be
>
>
>what people are interested in. If people are it is available in his book,
>
>
>"Culture and the development of children's actions."
>
>
>
>
>
>eric
>
>
>
>
>
>Paul Dillon
>
>
>yahoo.com> cc:
>Sent by: Subject: Re: [xmca] perhaps. . . sensei
>xmca-bounces who-is-at web
>er.ucsd.edu
>
>
>12/21/2006 10:33
>AM
>Please respond
>to "eXtended
>Mind, Culture,
>Activity"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Eric,
>
>I wasn't denying that there are "logical matrices" within the individual
>practices, only that the search for one overarching definition that would
>encompass all of the practices might be trying to make a road that really
>goes nowhere. But even within hospitals and other institutions there are
>lots of different areas of practice ranging from the technical (eg surgery)
>to the political (learning how, as a nurse, you need to relate to doctors
>or administrators)
>
>Paul
>
>ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org wrote:
>
>Paul Dillon wrote:
>
>"Sensei, nothing more nor less than someone farther down the road, what's
>the practice and what needs does it relate to? Looking for some absolute
>concept of zoped seems pointless, trying to define it so that one could
>identify it in any context on the basis of a Carnapian logical matrix,
>impossible. The key I think is to look at the practice, identify its road
>and see how far people are along that road and how they make that road
>relevant to someone who might not even know the road is there. Expanding
>is moving beyond the known roads into what was previously unknown."
>
>I beleive on the ontogenetic level (learning/development) this is extremely
>helpful, but on the phylogenetic level(personality/socialization)it misses
>much of the cultural-historical emphasis. Engstrom's learning by expanding
>emphasises broad cultural entities (hospitals and other work places). In
>these settings there are logical matrixes/structures.
>
>what do you think?
>eric
>
>
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