Yes Olga,
Loud and collective
(And then silent and indivudual)
The children are back and they are loud!! (as Iron Maiden used to say -
We are back and we are loud)
Greetings from The North
Leif
2006-03-19 kl. 17.37 skrev Griswold, Olga:
> Lief's posting reminds me very much of Laura Sterponi's work on
> reading. In fact, one of her dissertation chapters deals directly
> with peer interaction and scaffolding during reading, which,
> incidentally, is supposed to be silent and individual, according to
> the teacher's instructions.
>
> Olga
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu on behalf of Leif Strandberg
> Sent: Sun 3/19/2006 2:05 AM
> To: mcole@weber.ucsd.edu; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: [xmca] Classrooms and learning
>
> In my country we have had public schools for about 160 years - not
> 6.000 years ("The 30:1 transmission classroom template has been there
> for about 6000 year by my rough calculation", sa Mike wrote)
>
> When public schools staretd 1842 in Sweden the reading ability among
> the people went down (sic!). Schooling is not equivalent with learning,
> and during our long period of walking (and talking)here on earth human
> beings have created many forms of learning. The classroon template is
> only one.
>
> We must remember that LSV wrote about adult guidance AND support from
> peers.
>
> Successful children already use joint activity (together with adults
> (teachers and parents) and peers) Every child must learn from the
> learning strategy of their successful peers. To me the very simple
> request ; "Go and ask how they are doing - ask them for help" is too
> seldom asked. And the likewisely very simple pedagocial request: "Do it
> together!" is too seldom put to all children. Some children know and
> understand that they shall/can(are allowed to ask for help among their
> peers - and they become successful - every child must learn how to do
> that - it is very simply. And cheap! Cheaper than sepecial ed!
>
> To Eric's mail: "ONLY WITHIN THE LIMITS SET BY THE STATE OF HIS
> DEVELOPMENT" (LSV)
>
> And "his [her] development" is always related to relations - read what
> LSV writes in Mind in Society (p 89) about retarded children - they
> will not achieve abstract thought "when left to themselves". Okay, we
> can perform "a head taller" (perhaps not two heads - I don't know) -but
> to me the very meaning of what LSV taught us was the fact that we
> always perform and growTOGETHER,
>
> leif
>
>
> 2006-03-18 kl. 21.16 skrev Mike Cole:
>
>> Sure Lois, take us along this path because it seems to me one of the
>> important ways to go, if not the
>> only way. But 31 potential contributors are likely be brownian motion
>> that
>> get the teacher fired if they
>> are not organized in some way(s). What ways? Which will work in what
>> insitutions?
>>
>> We can, and should, argue that it is a great way to create
>> power.knowledgedifferentials and stunt development.
>> But we also have to provide alternatives that work and then
>> alternatives
>> that work in publically viable settings.....
>> like ps2 or whatever in NYC or most any school in San Diego.
>>
>> I just left a setting in the community where kids between the ages of
>> 2 and
>> 15 and undergrads and a couple of
>> community adults and three visitors from Japan and a couple of others
>> who
>> think of themselves as associated
>> with UCSD were busy co-creating development. Existence proofs are
>> important.
>> Spreading that "virus" seems
>> equally important.
>> Andalee!
>> mike
>>
>> On 3/18/06, Lois Holzman <lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> What if the teacher is not working one on thirty, though? There are,
>>> after
>>> all, 31 zoped creators in this situation, 31 contributors to creating
>>> an
>>> environment in which the teacher (along with others) can facilitate
>>> everyone's learning. Can we see the teacher's work as supporting that
>>> activity?
>>>
>>> Lois
>>>
>>>> From: "Mike Cole" <lchcmike@gmail.com>
>>>> Reply-To: mcole@weber.ucsd.edu, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>>>> <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>>>> Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:45:20 -0800
>>>> To: bb <xmca-whoever@comcast.net>
>>>> Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] chat analysis of ritual
>>>>
>>>> The whole issue of how a teacher working one on thirty can create
>>> anything
>>>> approximating a zoped
>>>> is worth a lot of discussion.
>>>> mike
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>
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>
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