Interesting interpretation, Eric. But how could there by any distinction
between sign and tool in
a syncretic stage, more or less by definition.
What do people think of the examples? How do you interpret them if not in
the authors's terms?
mike
On 1/18/06, ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org <ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org> wrote:
>
>
> bb, mike, mary, et al:
>
> Returning to Vygotsky in regards to the subject of sign as tool use begs
> the subject of Vygotsky's premise of language formation as not only
> progressing through stages of development; Vygotsky would make sure to
> point out that these stages are not static but rather flow along a
> continuum depending on context, the stages being, autism -syncretic-higher
> psychological function. In the recent article up for discussion it is my
> humble opinion that the authors are focusing on the scyncretic stage and
> therefore must make the distinction between referant and spoken word.
>
> eric
>
>
>
> bb
> <xmca-whoever who-is-at co To: "eXtended Mind,
> Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> mcast.net> cc:
> Sent by: Subject: Re: [xmca]
> Artifacts, Tools and Classroom
> xmca-bounces who-is-at web
> er.ucsd.edu
>
>
> 01/18/2006 07:49
> AM
> Please respond
> to "eXtended
> Mind, Culture,
> Activity"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> If we are thinking neither of how mathematical signs are used in
> engineering,
> in designing things, in architecture, changing the physical world -- nor
> how
> mastering tools necessitate mastering oneself, as in a child picking up a
> hammer for the first time, or putting on a pair of ice skates, then the
> raw
>
> quote from LSV makes wonderful but naive sense. Tools and signs as
> categories expressing difference in function, theoretically, is just fine.
>
> But in instantiation there are many things that are both tools AND signs.
>
> bb
>
>
> On Monday 16 January 2006 12:01 pm, Mary K. Bryson wrote:
> > On 1/15/06 1:20 AM, "Steve Gabosch" <sgabosch@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > The
> > > point LSV is making is that in this respect,
> > > tools and signs are similar and not
> > > different.
> >
> > "A most essential difference between sign and tool, and the basis for
> the
> > real divergence of the two lines, is the different ways that they orient
> > human behavior. The tool's function is to serve as the conductor of
> human
> > influence on the object of activity; it is externally oriented; it must
> > lead to changes in objects. It is a means by which human external
> activity
> > is aimed at mastering, and triumphing over, nature. The sign on the
> other
> > hand changes nothing in the object of a psychological operation. It is a
> > means of internal activity aimed at mastering oneself; the sign is
> > internally oriented. These activities are so different from each other
> that
> > the nature of the means they use cannot be the same in both cases."
> > LSV, Mind in Society, P. 55
> >
> >
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