I have a strong impression that we are just starting to explore this
conference -- being there was a very exciting social and intellectual
experience. But also very limited by time and space and the ability to
immediately process so much information. I we want to describe it as an
event, each one of us had a little different perspective and a little
different reaction. But if you want to use it as a knowledge basis,
there is a lot to search for in the abstracts.
Ana
David Preiss wrote:
>There was any reference to Freud in the context of the discussion?
>I have always been intrigued by the lack of dialogue between CHAT and
>psychoanalisis.
>
>David Preiss
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Profesor Auxiliar / Assistant Professor
>Pontificia Universidad Católica de Chile
>Escuela de Psicología
>Av. Vicuña Mackenna 4860
>Macul, Santiago,
>Chile
>Fono: 56-2-3544605
>Fax: 56-2-354-4844
>E-mail: davidpreiss@puc.cl
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
>Behalf Of David H Kirshner
>Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 11:27 AM
>To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>Subject: Re: [xmca] ISCAR - Sevilla 2005 -- Theoretical Concepts in CHAT
>andtheir connestion to physical concepts and knowledge
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Lois,
>
>I share (what I sense is) your frustration with this debate. I see the
>insistence on reason, as a variety of dualist thinking entering even
>(otherwise) sophisticated discourses. Now the caveat that people "act ALWAYS
>from reason [but] not necessarily with awareness of it" complicates the
>matter by allowing the possibility that one's actions conform to
>reasonableness criteria even if one's personal mentality doesn't actually
>participate in explicit processes of reasoning. But I think this is just an
>obfuscation of the basic position that humans are basically rational
>creatures. One sees the influence of this perspective in a wide range of
>pedagogical discourses (e.g., cognitivist and constructivist positions--and
>sometimes sociocultural, too?) that construe metacognitive mastery as the
>primary goal of education--the gateway to everything else. My favorite quote
>on the matter (though framed in terms of consciousness) diagnoses the causes
>of the position in almost poetic language:
>
>Consciousness is a much smaller part of our mental life than we are
>conscious of, because we cannot be conscious of what we are not conscious
>of. How simple that is to say; how difficult to appreciate. It is like
>asking a flashlight in a dark room to search around for something that does
>not have any light shining upon it. The flashlight, since there is light in
>whatever direction it turns, would have to conclude that there is light
>everywhere. And so consciousness can seem to pervade all mentality when
>actually it does not. (Jaynes, 1976, p. 23)
>
>Jaynes, J. (1976). The origin of consciousness in the breakdown of the
> bicameral mind. Toronto: University of Toronto Press.
>
>David Kirshner
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lois Holzman
>
> <lholzman who-is-at eastsideins To: "eXtended Mind,
>Culture, Activity
> titute.org> mcole@weber.ucsd.edu, "
><xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent by: cc: (bcc: David H
>Kirshner/dkirsh/LSU)
> xmca-bounces who-is-at weber.uc Subject: Re: [xmca]
>ISCAR - Sevilla 2005 -- Theoretical
> sd.edu Concepts in CHAT and
>their connestion to physical
> concepts and knowledge
>
>
>
> 10/06/2005 06:51 PM
>
> Please respond to
>
> "eXtended Mind,
>
> Culture, Activity"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I was also at the session Mike mentions below. While I too would like to
>explore more any relationship between Vygotsky and Spinoza. And that talk
>brought another thing up. I found Jan's talk to raise an intriguing/thorny
>issue. I can't find my notes right now so my summary will be only enough to
>make what I'm thinking (perhaps) clear. Jan was saying that human beings act
>ALWAYS from reason<
>
>>From: Mike Cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
>>Reply-To: mcole@weber.ucsd.edu, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>><xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>>Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 18:08:57 +0200
>>To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>>Subject: Re: [xmca] ISCAR - Sevilla 2005 -- Theoretical Concepts in
>>CHAT
>>
>>
>and
>
>
>>their connestion to physical concepts and knowledge
>>
>>Thanks Ana, for your overview. I am checking with folks at LCHC about
>>how
>>
>>
>we
>
>
>>could
>>most easily make all the abstracts of xmca members, or that xmca
>>members want to discuss, gathered together in one place.
>>I have a few clear minutes to write and have been reading with interest
>>what others have
>>been posting. My own feeling is that concrete issues from concrete
>>
>>
>sessions
>
>
>>might be
>>of interest as possible markers for further discussion.
>>For example, at a symposium chaird by Jan Derry, Vladislav Lektorsky
>>
>>
>talked
>
>
>>about the
>>centrality of formative experiments as central to cultural-historical
>>methodology. this interests me a lot (I, too, identified this as an
>>issue in need of discussion). I
>>
>>
>do
>
>
>>not have the text and
>>Slava read in English which made it difficult to follow, but that
>>topic
>>
>>
>and
>
>
>>his ideas are of
>>interest to me for followup.
>>David Bakhurst talked about questions of mediation. I got a few
>>minutes
>>
>>
>to
>
>
>>talk to David about
>>his paper which is on what is another of my core interests. I found it
>>
>>
>very
>
>
>>odd that he could
>>raise as a possible difficulty the idea that from a chat perspective,
>>the world could be seen as accessible ONLY through a mediator. This is
>>clearly not the position taken by LSV or any
>>of his immediate colleagues, or by anyone I know of working in this
>>tradition. Much more could
>>and should be discussed vis a mediation (e,g. our earlier discussion of
>>whethe operations
>>are mediated, or if, once they become ¨transparent¨they no longer are.
>>
>>
>Jan
>
>
>>did not get enough
>>time to talk, but she raised some (apparently disputable) suggestions
>>
>>
>about
>
>
>>the relevance of
>>Hegel and Spinoza. Since the lsv-Spinoza connection is little
>>discussed
>>
>>
>and
>
>
>>the issue of
>>cognition/emotion is much discussed, this was something I thought
>>worth following up on. My computer connection is outta money.
>>Other comments to come
>>mike
>>
>>On 10/3/05, Ana Marjanovic-Shane <ana@zmajcenter.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>ISCAR in Sevilla, September 2005:
>>>
>>>In a conference of this scope, where one cannot hope to have attended
>>>even one 10th of all the presentations, it is hard to give any
>>>overall evaluations or even impressions. But, XMCA members who did
>>>not come to Sevilla, ought to have some notion of what went on there
>>>for 5 days in September 2005. So those of us who were there really
>>>need to put our thoughts together and give some descriptions of what
>>>went on. That is not easy. There are different aspects one can write
>>>about, different themes that ran through presentations, different
>>>aspects of organization. I will be working from my notes -- taken in
>>>haste during the workshops, from the abstracts we received and from
>>>some other sources people gave us (handouts, web pages). It would be
>>>very useful if someone at the XMCA headquarters could put the
>>>abstracts in pdf format on the server so that everyone could have an
>>>access to them. (Mike, is it possible to organize it?).
>>>
>>>The conference was held in 3 buildings of the Department of
>>>Psychology, Sociology and Philosophy, at the University of Sevilla.
>>>Those are new buildings (not part of the University main venue in the
>>>old Tobacco Factory), built with inner balconies and great
>>>visibility, so they were easy to navigate. The workshops were held in
>>>auditoriums, most of which had a classic layout: a podium with a
>>>blackboard and projection screen, and then rows of seats and desks.
>>>Everything fixed -- unmovable. There were just a few rooms without
>>>fixed benches -- with panels and chairs. They were used for Poster
>>>sessions. My first fear was that the first part of our session was
>>>assigned a room with fixed benches. We would have to move it -- since
>>>it was an interactive drama workshop where people have to have space
>>>to move, group and regroups and play!! Fortunately, it was not: we
>>>were given one of the poster rooms!!
>>>
>>>We usually don't consciously think of the space and its qualities
>>>when we participate in activities with intellectual content. But it
>>>is important. If our beliefs about the mediated quality of
>>>intellectual growth and functioning are true, then we have to think
>>>about the space as mediated and mediating. European universities (at
>>>least three of them I know, and now Sevilla) are still mediated by
>>>another paradigm about intellectual processing and education. A
>>>paradigm that Vygotsky started to question 100 years ago. It takes
>>>much more to have this understanding of ourselves trickle down to
>>>those who plan and build schools and universities.
>>>
>>>Participants came from many parts of the world. But not from
>>>everywhere. I was happy to see people from Africa -- some of them
>>>from Rwanda! There were not many Africans in the previous ISCRAT
>>>conferences. Participants came from all continents. There were many
>>>people known to us on the XMCA discussion list in the conference: N.
>>>Ares, D. Bakhurst, S. Chaiklin, M. Cole, M. de Haan, J. Derry, Y.
>>>Engeström, S. Gaskin, A. Goncu, P. Hakkarainen, L. Holzman, V.
>>>John-Stainer, E. Lampert-Shepel, C. Lee, E. Matusov, D. Robbins, W-M.
>>>Roth, A. Stetsenko, A. Surmava, J. Valsiner, B. van Oers, N. Veresov,
>>>G. Wells, J. Wertsch..., There were many more we have to learn about.
>>>
>>>The conference program listed two main themes with lots of sub
>>>themes: THEME A.- Theoretical and Methodological Issues THEME B.-
>>>Acting in changing worlds Each workshop was classified within one of
>>>the two themes and within one of its subtopics. What was hard on the
>>>conference organizers and on the conference attendees was to separate
>>>workshops that tackled similar problems in time: there were many
>>>workshops I wanted to go to, but they were held at the same time. I
>>>always had to choose between, at least two competing workshops and
>>>more often between three or four. That was very hard to juggle. I
>>>ended up running from one to another, missing chunks from each
>>>workshop that I wanted to hear, or just worrying that I was missing
>>>something else.
>>>
>>>Before the conference, I made my own selection of workshops which
>>>have something to do with play and imagination. That was my personal
>>>program guide, I am attaching here. However, I ended up changing it
>>>to accommodate other talks which were also important to me. [Other
>>>participants in Sevilla: Please send your own selection of the
>>>workshops!"]. In my next postings, I will discuss some of the
>>>presentations I attended. I invite you who went to Sevilla to discuss
>>>at least one of the presentations: one paper, one concept you heard
>>>discussed, one thought you found important in Sevilla. Each one of us
>>>has a special "pet" interest, and sometimes, special ways to
>>>understand or to "objectify" this interest through different
>>>selection of topics and different people. Maybe you want to connect
>>>the questions we asked before the Conference with your experience in
>>>the conference? Or maybe you would want to mention just something
>>>unexpected, something that made you think?
>>>
>>>Until later.
>>>
>>>Ana
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>---
>>>Ana Marjanovic-Shane
>>>
>>>151 W. Tulpehocken St.
>>>
>>>Philadelphia, PA 19144
>>>
>>>Home office: (215) 843-2909
>>>
>>>Mobile: (267) 334-2905
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>xmca mailing list
>>>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
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>
>
>
-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ana Marjanovic-Shane151 W. Tulpehocken St.
Philadelphia, PA 19144
Home office: (215) 843-2909
Mobile: (267) 334-2905
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