Some people on this list do and publish in pragmatic linguistics. . .
sorry, a bit delayed, just came back from AERA. Michael
On 10-Apr-05, at 7:27 AM, Ana Marjanovic-Shane wrote:
> It was just a suggestion. I agree fully, it is hard to sustain an on
> line conversation on one -- even broad - topic. But here is another
> suggestion, before we plan (or Phil plans! :-) who to invite to
> participate: How about "charting the universe of (LA and SLA)" -- just
> getting all the references together - but with one paragraph
> annotation by the person who proposes a reference? I am sure that even
> just gathering annotated references will be already a big job.
> Again, this is just a suggestion.
> Ana
>
>
> Mike Cole wrote:
> Ana and Kris--
>
> I fully agree about the relevance of the additional scholars you are
> suggesting, but it if you consider the range of ideas that fall under
> this
> expanded umbrella, it seems like we will need more than a summer to
> do justice to the corresponding range of ideas and volume of reading.
> Perhaps we need to dedicate the summer and fall to considering the
> topic
> of language, culture, and activity with different people playing
> discussion
> coordinator roles?
>
> In any event, my suggestion is that since Phil initiated this line of
> discussion
> (which we have had before, but not with sufficient concentration for
> it to
> "stick") we should ask him to be the first coordinator and then
> sequence
> things in a manner that allows consolidation over time. Then might
> one or
> both of you follow on?
>
> Of course, if there is concensus on tackling the range from Halliday
> to Bates
> through Ochs and the Goodwins, that can be attempted. My sense,
> however,
> is that a more measured sequence would work better.
>
> Then, after the first of the year, we will try a coordinated
> discussion of basic
> princiiples of chat as an online as well as local course. Mary Bryson
> is planning
> such a course where she is, as am I, so we have at least two "local"
> courses
> that can help to anchor and sustain a broader course.Our prior
> experience indicates
> that without such distributed cooperation, a large distributed
> course is likely to
> founder.
> mike
>
>
> On Apr 9, 2005 11:24 PM, Kris Gutierrez <gutierrez@gseis.ucla.edu>
> wrote:
> After AERA, i was going to ask Ellie (Ochs), and Chuck and Candy
> Goodwin to recommend one of their articles and i'll post some for
> consideration. i already asked the Goodwin's today. We're all
> working together on a Sloan Center for the Everyday lives of middle
> class working families but I'm not sure we have papers relevant to the
> topic that are ready. maybe later. kris
> Kris D. Gutierrez
> Professor
> Social Research Methodology
> Graduate School of Education & Information Studies
> Moore Hall 1026
> UCLA
> Los Angeles, CA 90095-1521
> 310-825-7467
> On Apr 9, 2005, at 10:46 PM, Ana Marjanovic-Shane wrote:
>
> > We should also include people in the "pragmatic linguistics",
> > especially people who study development. Elinor Ochs and Bambi
> > Schieffelin, Elizabeth Bates are some names that come to mind.
> >
> > Ana
> >
> > Steven Thorne wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Andy is absolutely right (which is why i put in the caveat about my
> >> lists being off the cuff and partial!) -- ron scollon with his
> >> innovative work on mediated discourse analysis does a great job of
> >> bringing together vygotskian insights with close analysis of
> >> language/discourse (as does debbie schiffrin's stuff on
> >> intersubjectivity as achievement, + many others).
> >>
> >> there's also a recently formed group that's putting into
> >> juxtaposition conversation analysis and chat -- it's a troubled
> >> marriage on a number of fronts, but it is the fissures and
> frictions
> >> that seem to be producing grist for the mill of
> interesting/combative
> >> thinking. a number of us will be presenting together at AILA (14th
> >> world congress of applied linguistics) this summer.
> >>
> >> steve
> >>
> >>> Hey lets not forget the interactional sociolinguistics.
> >>>
> >>> andy
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: Steven Thorne <sthorne@psu.edu>
> >>> Date: Thursday, April 7, 2005 12:49 pm
> >>> Subject: Re: Way off thread - SLA
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> hi Mike and all -- yes, if there's interest enough, it would be
> >>>> great
> >>>> to have a discussion that focused on language and chat (notice
> the
> >>>> slight broadening of the topic to be more inclusive and
> potentially
> >>>> interesting to a greater number of folks -- a tighter
> concentration
> >>>> on SLA and/or bilingualism is also fine). though there's been
> very
> >>>> interesting classical work on language within chat proper
> (bakhtin,
> >>>> volosinov, vygotsky, shpet, and more obliquely ilyenkov), as
> well
> >>>> as
> >>>> recent work (gordon wells, jay lemke, r. engestrom, chik
> collins,
> >>>> rommetveit, + some of the applied linguistics Phil mentioned)
> >>>> [note:
> >>>> these lists are off the cuff not meant to exclusive!], there are
> >>>> many
> >>>> highly related, and sometimes even explicitly chat linked,
> >>>> researchers doing very interesting work that is broadly
> >>>> commensurate
> >>>> with chat (michael tomasello comes foremost to mind here).
> >>>>
> >>>> but yes, other than this brief and hopefully encouraging
> missive,
> >>>> we'll save this thread for another time.
> >>>>
> >>>> steve
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> >Steven, Phil and other SLA advocates. Perhaps we can make this
> >>>> line
> >>>> >of work one thread in the
> >>>> >online CHAT class I am scheuling for December-March next year.
> As
> >>>> >you can see, between the
> >>>> >play discussion upcoming (see papers on xmca papers for
> >>>> discussion)
> >>>> >and discussion of an
> >>>> >article from MCA (see xmca discussions) I expect we will be
> >>>> >struggling simply to pay attention
> >>>> >to that and always-emerging other topics for the next several
> >>>> weeks.
> >>>> >mike
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >On Apr 7, 2005 12:27 AM, Steven Thorne
> >>>> ><<sthorne@psu.edu>sthorne@psu.edu> wrote:
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >hi Phil and all -- there is indeed a strong and growing strand
> of
> >>>> >applied and cognitive linguistics/SLA work rooted in vygotskian
> >>>> and
> >>>> >chat frameworks. a colleague (jim lantolf) and i are
> finishing up
> >>>> a
> >>>> >book length manuscript for OUP on this very theme. as you note,
> >>>> our
> >>>> >group here in the US has been active, but as you correctly
> >>>> mention,
> >>>> >most of our stuff has been praxiological, but not explicitly
> >>>> >pedagogical (though of course we strive to "ascend to the
> >>>> >concrete"!). in our forthcoming volume, we're trying to address
> >>>> this
> >>>> >through some chapters that look specifically at concept
> >>>> development
> >>>> >and the role of mediation, artifacts, and forms of
> participation
> >>>> >that might foster the conditions of possibility (to rob a line
> >>>> from
> >>>> >foucault) for learning, and potentially, development (i won't
> >>>> parse
> >>>> >these terms here other than to revisit vygotsky's notion that
> >>>> >learning precedes development, and development, especially in
> >>>> >late-modern post-vygotskian theorizing, involves resolutions to
> >>>> >contradictions > reorganization of mental processes > the
> >>>> >dialectical becoming of a new kind of person (possibly in
> domain
> >>>> >specific environments/performances).
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >lastly, i was a member of the old xlchc some years ago and
> only in
> >>>> >the past week or so resubscribed -- why it took me so long is a
> >>>> >mystery! but i'm very happy to be back.
> >>>
> >>> > >
> >>>
> >>>> >
> >>>> >steve
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >>Sorry, All to open a counter-thread, but I have been doing
> some
> >>>> >>back reading of reviews etc, and came across this intriguing
> >>>> >>section of a review of a book devoted to second language (SL)
> >>>> >>learning and linguistic form and meaning (see below). I was
> >>>> >>intrigued by this section of the review (background: the
> field of
> >>>> >>SL "acquisition" is still dominated by psycholinguistic
> theories
> >>>> >>stemming from Chomskyian linguistic theory and conduit
> metaphors
> >>>> of
> >>>> >>communication, see Reddy's work of three decades ago). Like
> some
> >>>> >>others (both active and passive list members, based on the
> member
> >>>> >>list Mike mentioned earlier), I have been living the
> >>>> contradiction
> >>>> >>between the dominant platform in SL research and the one(s)
> that
> >>>> >>are more semiotically based and focused on human interaction
> and
> >>>> >>development. But should we always be in a position where we do
> >>>> not
> >>>> >>"fully agree" with the prevailing hegemonic views on aspects
> of
> >>>> >>human development when we have such exciting "counter views"
> >>>> based
> >>>> >>on the interests of many on this list? Views which have
> spurned
> >>>> >>their own debates between, for example, the strong
> socio-semiotic
> >>>> >>and interventionist, though somewhat inaccessible theories of
> the
> >>>> >>Australian SFL group based on Halliday, Martin, etc; the
> exciting
> >>>> >>group within the US that bases its work on sociocultural
> theory,
> >>>> >>albeit criticised for downplaying pedagogy (Lantolf, Wells,
> >>>> Thorne,
> >>>> >>Kramsch, etc); and the group of educational sociologists in
> the
> >>>> UK
> >>>> >>that have expanded and made more accessible the works of, for
> >>>> >>example, Bernstein. Apologies for the geographical divides
> here,
> >>>> >>but I am sure it is a little less in your face than religious
> >>>> >>analogies.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >
> >>>> >I'm young in this academic game, and I'd love some pointers on
> >>>> ways
> >>>> >to foster cross-talk rather than cross!-talk.
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >Phil Chappell
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >--
> >>>> >Steven L. Thorne
> >>>> >Assistant Professor of Applied Linguistics
> >>>> >Linguistics and Applied Language Studies
> >>>> > and
> >>>> >Communication Arts and Sciences
> >>>> >Associate Director, Center for Language Acquisition
> >>>> >Associate Director, Center for Advanced Language Proficiency
> >>>> >Education and Research
> >>>> >The Pennsylvania State University
> >>>> >Interact > 814.863.7036 | <sthorne@psu.edu>sthorne@psu.edu |
> >>>>
> >>>> ><http://language.la.psu.edu/~thorne/>http://language.la.psu.edu/
> >>>> ~thorne/
> >>>> >| IM: avkrook
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Steven L. Thorne
> >>>> Assistant Professor of Applied Linguistics
> >>>> Linguistics and Applied Language Studies
> >>>> and
> >>>> Communication Arts and Sciences
> >>>> Associate Director, Center for Language Acquisition
> >>>> Associate Director, Center for Advanced Language Proficiency
> >>>> Education and Research
> >>>> The Pennsylvania State University
> >>>> Interact > 814.863.7036 | sthorne@psu.edu |
> >>>> http://language.la.psu.edu/~thorne/ | IM: avkrook
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>
>
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