Eugene,
I think it fair to say that as a youngster, Marx had never seen a
proletarian, and his early contacts with workers read like reports of the
"noble savage". His experiences in the International Workingmen's
Association however did mark a break. Living as an exile in London, he was
invited to join the General Council and for several years there he did
indeed work in day-to-day collaboration with workers. True, these were
relatively politically conscious workers, but political consciousness is
not the exclusive preserve of intellectuals. If you are talking about
whether Marx addressed himself to politically illiterate and naive people,
then that is an altogether different question. The La Liberte speech comes
from the battle against Bakunin and is most certainly addressed to working
class people. Abstention from politics was a strong current of thought
among English trade unionists.
Marx was actually opposed to radical intelligentsia like himself even being
allowed to join the IWMA. He was persuaded to agree to this, but he was
never comfortable with even his own position in the IWMA.
I don't know if you've read Francis Wheen's biography "Karl Marx", but I
found it very very helpful. Wheen is quite ruthless, but I think he
accurately brings out what were Marx's real insights in a sympathetic way.
It's not on line, but it's paperback and cheap and a good read.
Andy
At 06:17 PM 4/01/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>Dear Andy and everybody
>
>
>
>Thanks a lot, Andy, for very useful references to Marxs speeches. However,
>I could not find speeches where Marx treated workers as YOU. Maybe I was
>out of luck or maybe I am misinterpreting Marxs writings (speeches). Let
>me give an example from Andys list. Here is a fragment from Marxs speech
>The International Working Men's Association, 1872 La Liberté Speechat
><http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/09/08.htm>http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/09/08.htm
>
>
>
>
>In our midst there has been formed a group advocating the workers'
>abstention from political action. We have considered it our duty to
>declare how dangerous and fatal for our cause such principles appear to be.
>
>Someday the worker must seize political power in order to build up the new
>organization of labor; he must overthrow the old politics which sustain
>the old institutions, if he is not to lose Heaven on Earth, like the old
>Christians who neglected and despised politics.
>
>But we have not asserted that the ways to achieve that goal are everywhere
>the same.
>
>You know that the institutions, mores, and traditions of various countries
>must be taken into consideration, and we do not deny that there are
>countries -- such as America, England, and if I were more familiar with
>your institutions, I would perhaps also add Holland -- where the workers
>can attain their goal by peaceful means. This being the case, we must also
>recognize the fact that in most countries on the Continent the lever of
>our revolution must be force; it is force to which we must some day appeal
>in order to erect the rule of labor.
>
>It is difficult for me to assume that Marx referred YOU and WE to workers.
>Rather he seemed to refer workers to HEand THEM. It seems to me that WE
>and YOU were revolutionary intellectuals talking and thinking on behalf of
>(most progressive, those without false consciousness) workers.
>
>
>
>What do you think?
>
>
>
>Eugene
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: Andy Blunden [mailto:ablunden@mira.net]
>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 10:59 PM
>
> > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>
> > Subject: RE: false consciousness: real and virtual worlds
>
> >
>
> > There are lots of examples of Marx talking TO working class people in his
>
> > writings. For example his talks on Economics which were given to groups of
>
> > revolutionary-minded workers, and his speeches at the International
>
> > Workingmen's Association. Not that of course his more philosophical or
>
> > polemical works weren't meant for the eyes of workers, but nor were they
>
> > specifically aimed at working class people.
>
> >
>
> > Examples:
>
> > http://www.marxists.org/history/international/iwma/documents/speeches.htm
>
> > http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/ch01.htm
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > A
>
> >
>
> > > I wonder how Marxist texts would look like (and if they are
>
> > >possible) if Marx wrote not ABOUT working class (to a community of
>
> > >middle-class revolutionary intellectuals) but TO working class people (not
>
> > >as a mentor but as a "buddy"). I'm not talking about popularization of
>
> > >Marx's ideas to working class people but again to talking to (if not with)
>
> > >them. Is such text possible? Would it have "false consciousness" wording?
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