Re: timescale question

From: Steve Gabosch (bebop101@comcast.net)
Date: Wed Oct 29 2003 - 04:22:25 PST


From: Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>

Hegel's Doctrine of the Notion, and in particular the third section of the
Subjective Notion, on the Syllogism, must be one of the most difficult
pieces of reading ever written, but very profound and important. If you're
interested, I can try to explain what he's doing here.

******************
SG:
Yes, please!
******************

To explain anything in Hegel's works you have to draw attention to which
particular point in his system you are talking about. So, the Notion is
preceded by Being and Essence, which constitute the genesis of the Notion.
The Subjective Notion is the first part of the Notion, in which the Notion
is in itself, and is followed by the Objective Notion and the Idea. The
three parts of the Subjection Notion are the Abstract Notion, the Judgment
and the Syllogism. In the Abstract Notion, Hegel introduces its three
aspects, the Individual, the Particular and the Universal. In the
Individual the concept exists in the form of an individual, for example a
person. In the Particular, the Notion exists as a category or class. In the
Universal, the Notion exists as such. The Judgment deals with the relation
of Individual to Particular, Particular to Universal and so on. The
syllogism deals with the three-way relations between Individual, Particular
and Universal, that is, the various ways in which I, U or P mediate between
any two of I, U and P.

Clear on that?

******************
SG:
Yes, I think so.

Being

Essence

Notion

         Subjective Notion

                 Abstract Notion - the three aspects of Notion
                         the Individual (I), such as a person
                         the Particular (P), such as a category or class
                         the Universal (U), a notion as such

                 Judgment - relations between the three aspects of Notion
                         the relation of Individual to Particular (I to P)
                         the relation of Particular to Universal (P to U)
                         etc.

                 Syllogism - mediations between the three aspects
                         the mediation of I between U and P
                         the mediation of U between I and P
                         the mediation of P between U and I
                         etc.

         Objective Notion

         Idea

Does this outline more or less capture your description?

**************************

OK. That was difficult enough. I don't think I can go any further without
resorting to examples. Hegel uses very obscure explications of the various
syllogisms which result from the various three-way relations between I, U
and P, and his refutation of them to show that each proposition is
fallacious, that is to say, misses the Notion. The idea is that in order to
fully develop a Notion must incorporate all the syllogisms which are
successively overcome (refuted, sublated) by its development. So, we need
some examples.

***********************
SG:
Paraphrasing, this passage seems to me to mean that syllogisms by their
nature are fallacious and miss the Notion. As a Notion develops, it
overcomes (refutes, sublates), and then incorporates these syllogisms.

Is this paraphrase in the ballpark, and what is Hegel's point here?
*********************

Being a trade unionist, I find it easiest to understand all this by
exploring the concept of "unionism" or "solidarity" which I know very well
and concretely, so that's the example I will use. I think "science" or
"learning" are concepts which are sufficiently concrete to be able to
demonstrate Hegel's insight equally well.

At one level we have an individual union member, a particular branch (a
"local" in American, but equally it could be a union or division etc) and
the union itself (or the entire union movement or "unionism", a true
universal). Hegel goes through 12 different syllogisms. That is, he looks
at 12 different combinations of I, U and P mediating between each other.

********************
SG:
12 combinations ... hmmm ...

P mediating from U to I
P mediating from I to U
U mediating from P to I
U mediating from I to P
I mediating from U to P
I mediating from P to U

What are the other 6 combinations?
****************************

So for example, when a branch represents the union to an individual we have
the Particular mediating from Universal to Individual. When an Individual
represents the Union in, for example, visiting a branch and arguing for
union policy, Individual mediates between U and P. When a branch makes
representations for an individual to the union leadership for example, we
have Particular mediating from Individual to Universal. The drift of the
way Hegel deal with each mediation is to show that each has a truth, but
proves to be one-sided. So for example the Branch which insists to a member
that only the branch is able to represent the member's concerns to the
union leadership, this misses the fact that the individual, as a worker has
their own relation to unionism, and rights under rules as a union member,
and may choose to go to the union leadership and seek support to overthrow
the branch leadership or change branch policy and so on.

*******************
SG:
These examples are very helpful!
*******************

All the aspects found in the Subjective Notion are "maxims" about the
relation between Universals, Particulars and Individuals, which prove to
"fall short of the Notion".

*********************
SG:
I take this to mean that Hegel uses the term "maxim" to refer to statements
about the three aspects (aspects of the Notion in the Abstract), the
relations between these aspects (Judgments) and the mediations between them
(Syllogisms) - all statements that under close examination "fall short of
the Notion" itself. Is this about right?
********************

By using these kind of ideas, it is possible to deal with how "universals"
exist in institutions, in people's minds and activities, and in linguistic
or symbolic forms.

********************
SG:
Would it make sense to say this same sentence but add the other two
aspects? As in "By using these kind of ideas, it is possible to deal with
how" - [here add] "individuals", "particulars" and -"universals" exist in
institutions, in people's minds and activities, and in linguistic or
symbolic forms."
***********************

The concept is not any one of these forms of existence, but in the whole
mass of relations between them, which are in fact, not just at one single
set of three levels, but at a myriad of concatenated levels.

*********************
SG:
Where does the "concept" fit in the development of the Notion?

I so appreciate your explanations of Hegel on the Notion, Andy, please
continue!

- Steve



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