Dianne,
The answer to you question concerning animals is NO they do not because, and
precisely for the simple reason, that humans do not HAVE consciousness in
the way you are apparently assuming. It might be useful to distinguish
"consciousness" from "sentience". Consciousness is social, not individual.
Individual humans internalize this social consciousness, as part of becoming
human; ie., as part of becoming conscious. The confusion involves two
issues that Ilyenkov clearly distinguishes: the relationship between
individual human mental activity and consciousness and the relationship
between consciousness and the world, is precisely the confusion that
Ilyenkov strives so hard to clarify. Consciousness is perception of ideal
phenomena which are created in the material world through social, collective
human activity . This is another way of saying that all consciousness is
mediated.
Paul H. Dillon
----- Original Message -----
From: Diane Hodges <dhodges@ceo.cudenver.edu>
To: <hworthen@igc.org>
Cc: <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2000 11:12 AM
Subject: Re(2): Ideal - Ilyenkov
> in response to queery:
> >---- "Are we to accept here that consciousness is (a) effectively human
> >and
> >so
> >(b) essentially social and cultural and historical?"
>
> helen writes enthusiastically:
> >
> >Yep!!!!
>
> so animals have no consciousness? dogs, cats, horses, lions, hyenas,
> wolves, bears, whales, none of these beasts have consciousness, even as
> they have sets of social systems and communcative roles and languages?
>
> what about newborns? are we to believe we are born without any
> consciousness, because we cannot speak? or because we are not socialized
> at birth?
> i am just trying to narrow the field, because i've done quite a bit of
> study in the areas of
> consciousness, and am seeking the parameters that may be taken for granted
> here.
> thanks helen!
> diane
>
> **********************************************************************
> :point where everything listens.
> and i slow down, learning how to
> enter - implicate and unspoken (still) heart-of-the-world.
>
> (Daphne Marlatt, "Coming to you")
> ***********************************************************************
>
> diane celia hodges
>
> university of british columbia, centre for the study of curriculum and
> instruction
> ==================== ==================== =======================
> university of colorado, denver, school of education
>
> Diane_Hodges@ceo.cudenver.edu
>
>
>
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