Paul,
I assume this was not intended as a public message, but either way, I have a
difficult time understanding how such a framing sets a useful frame in which
to discuss the book. I do hope the discussion of the book is not with the
objective to have a battle for the soul of activity theory - whatever that
may be. It feels to me as world war 3 is about to start with attempts to
draw a battleline.
This is not how I see the book. I think with the interest that has been
expressed it can serve as a "boundary object" of sorts in which members from
a variety of theoretical frameworks will find the book engaging and
pertinent to their work. The goal of getting others involved from Europe is
the opposite as you portray. If anything there is more of a point of
emphasizing the importance of Marx in academic writings. We recently
received a message from Jan who edited a book on Ilyenkov who is part of the
Birmingham group we are attempting to get involved in this project. This is
about collaboration and realizing that other players are interested in such
a project such as those in Finland and Birmingham who are currently applying
some of these ideas. I would assume that since a lot of this work is not
freely available in the states, and it has implications to your own work you
recently shared, you would be more receptive with attempts at getting more
parties involved.
Nate
who-is-at @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Nate Schmolze
http://members.home.net/schmolze1/
schmolze1@home.com
who-is-at @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul H.Dillon [mailto:illonph@pacbell.net]
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 9:23 AM
To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
Subject: Re: some refs
Andy,
Hi.
Ilyenkov's "Problem of the Ideal" isn't a book, it's one of the essays
included in another Progress Publishers book titled: Philosophy In the
USSR: Problems of Dialectical Materialism. This is only a partial
translation of the original. We are going to try Pete Jones for a possible
copy. Nate says there isn't much of a problem with copyright issues.I'm
very impressed by Nate's contribution since he discovered your site and the
MIA.
I hope you'll be a strong contributor if this discussion of Leont'ev ever
gets off the ground. It is so interesting to me that Cole takes the
proposal to discuss this work so seriously. My feeling is that he knows
that Leont'ev is the real thing, not just this or that secondary work, and
that it undermines a lot of the US academic interpretations of activity
theory, internalization, agency, etc. His "stalling" seems to suggest that
either (a) he really wants to ensure that the participants "internalize" it
as much as possible (optimistic) or (b) he recognizes that the dialectical
materialist basis of activity theory -- and the derivative CHAT -- is so
totally apparent in the Leont'ev work that he wants to ensure the
participation of enough "big names" as to dominate the interpretative
process, pull the teeth out of the work, and thereby maintain room for
continuing the dalliance with the post-modernist neo-Kantians and other
bourgeois ideologues who dominate xmca (pessimistic). The latter of course
akin to Freud's conscious/unconscious censor!!!
Take care,
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Blunden <a.blunden@pb.unimelb.edu.au>
To: <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: some refs
> Paul,
>
> I would be delighted to put up any Ilyenkov material at all I can get hold
> of. I still have 100 pages or so of his book on Positivism to scan, but
> that can wait. I have never seen this book on the concept of the Ideal.
> Ilyenkov is the most frequently commented on and appreciated author (apart
> from Hegel) that I have archived.
>
> The simple problem is - Ilyenkov is unavailable in Australia so far as I
> know. If I am going to put any more Ilyenkov up on the MIA site I need
help
> in finding the appropriate texts.
>
> Andy
>
> PS: I would love to see the Leontyev text we are going to discuss on the
> MIA as well, Nate is the director of the Leontyev archive. I don't know
> what the copyright situation might be for it.
>
>
>
> At 12:26 23/08/2000 -0700, you wrote:
> >mike,
> >
> >I'm looking into the feasibility of putting up the Bakhurst passages.
> >
> >The book is "Consciousness and Revolution in Soviet Philosophy: From the
> >Bolsheviks to Evald Ilyenkov". Cambridge University Press. 1991.
> >
> >Ch. 3 is devoted to a discussion of Vygotsky with attention to the
question
> >of "internalization" (ZPD not really at issue here). The theme of the
book
> >is Evald Ilyenkov's reworking of dialectical materialist theory with
special
> >attention to "the problem of the ideal."
> >
> >A lot of Ilyenkov at http://www.marxists.org/archive/ilyenkov/index.htm
but
> >one of the works that Bakhurst cites frequently is "The Concept of the
> >Ideal" but I have been unable to locate it. Andy, any chance of getting
> >that up on the Ilyenkov page??
> >
> >Paul H. Dillon
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Mike Cole <mcole@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >To: <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 10:24 AM
> >Subject: some refs
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Paul-- Could you post a couple of key refs of works you are drawing
> >> on, and where possible, parts of things. I am thinking of Bakhurst
> >> on Vygotsky on units of anlaysis, for example. If its at all possible
> >> to scan key passages and post them to xmca, it would greatly broaden
> >> potential participation.
> >>
> >> Still waiting to hear from our Nordic neighbors.
> >> mike
> >>
> >
> **************************************************
> * Andy Blunden, Teaching Space Consultant,
> * and Manager of Videoconferencing Operations
> * http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> * University of Melbourne 9344 0312 (W) 9380 9435 (H)
> **************************************************
>
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