Paul said,
> 1. As you point out in response to Nate, Ilyenkov's example of the
> conscious relationship of the subject to the world surrounding him, is not
> really directed to considerations of art per se, but seems more to be a
> paraphrase of Marx's well known comparison of the activity of a spider
> weaving its web to any human carpenter. The idea of the final product is a
> precondition of the activity in the latter, not so in the former.
This helps. I used the Ilyenkov example because while as you say it is based on Marx's
spider, Vygotsky used the same base yet described it a little differently. I, of course did not
assume Ilyenkov's comment was directed solely at art, just as Vygotsky's *psychology of
art* had more broad implications.
So, in the context of the spider where does this idea come from. Is it motivated by and
determined by activity, so therefore a dialectic of both "the world" and the carptenter. This
makes sense to me, but the quote by Ilyenkov felt real unidirectional to me. Kind of like a
suburban carpenter ;).
I would find a discussion of the ideal real useful, it seems to be discussed often and with
various interpretations. And BTW Peter's page on the ideal is linked on the MCA link page
as well as the Marxist Internet Archive where Andy's papers are now located. In addition
MIA also is seeking support in changing copyright laws so more work as what Paul
mentioned can be released.
Nate
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