Hi Judy, Bill, Mike, and all others
Firstly, let me introduce myself (to you, Judy, again). We met at the recent AERA
in Montreal, where I attended your presentation and also requested for a copy of
your paper. I've also recently received your paper via "snail-mail". Thanks
heaps! I'ld would like to discuss it further with you later, if it's okay with
you?.
I've been working on the topic of A CHAT Perspective of Identity Construction
(IC) (especially within the contexts of beyond schooling environments) since late
1996. Back then (in '96/97), I was still toying with the idea of a CHAT
perspective to SRL (self-regulated learning) and motivation and even wrote
something about it, though at the time, none of my colleagues at my faculty have
articulated this notion or shown any interest (XMCA was unknown to me at the time
too!). But reading about Lave and Wenger, and subsequently, Mike's book (on
Cultural Psychology), and others as well, I've shifted my interest to identity,
especially within religious COP. Nevertheless, I'm certain that the relations
between SRL and IC is mediated/motivation by interest (or the lack of it? -
somewhat mentioned in Wenger's book, "COP: Learning, meaning and identities.).
Judy Diamondstone wrote:
> Victoria, Since this question still preoccupies me, it was interesting to
> see Bill's response to you that quoted me -- and to see my own rehashing of
> Ann Freadman's text about -- well, about rehashing texts, in some sense...
Perhaps, the "data-rich" description of Ann's text, as mentioned by Bill, and
you, serves to further illuminate Bakhtin's novel articulation about the problem
of speech genres. In some sense, even our "conversation" highlights the problems.
Rehearsing texts in written forms, versus verbal utterances, and subsequently
appropriating speech, are almost like living in two/more different planets. If I
may suggest, one may expect scholarly discussions on XMCA to have a somewhat
informal personality. This is so only to the extent when conversing on relatively
un-academically inclined topics (such as fishing and blah). But the moment
academia is introduced into the conversation/multilogues, it transforms the
interactions into a dense exchanged of jargons, thereby similarly transforming
the genre(s) of speech, as is evident even at this instant. Nonetheless, there
are both very explicit and as well as "un-written" rules on XMCA (eg using AT
perspective). For example, the topic of fishing is not considered XMCA interest,
not unless if it were something like "A Study of Self Regulation in Fishing
Techniques among Novice Fishermans". Any response???
> Does identification necessitate or presuppose affect? Why is it that in the
> x-list practices the pattern of participation remains stubbornly resistant
> to any redistribution of KINDS of participants? How come more girls don't
> play more often in the multilogues?
In playing out the various genres of speech, this seems to be also reflected in
the "demography" of participants, Judy. Why not more "girls"? Perhaps, "gals"
like to converse, more often than not, in persons and privacy than in public
arena such as XMCA. This is also not discounting the fact that there are many
(and I emphasise, TOO MANY) silent observers/participants ... In articulating
this, I could stand accused of gender biasness, so, I'll claim that this is
usually the practice among my female colleagues and peers. Even I am "guilty" of
this, "watching" XMCA as a peripheral participant for almost a year now. So,
Judy, would one more "girl" participant increase your motivation to press on in
these multilogues?
> I think of affect as a sign of mimesis at work, and we tend to treat mimesis
> as the primitive precondition for rational communication/ multilogue, rather
> than as the intertwined and necessary twin of whatever we actually say. So
> in Eva's elegant modelling of the discussion list, the activity system as a
> whole got analyzed into several separate, cascading systems -- while that
> picture is elucidating, it's also as Nate and others have pointed out
> problematic.
"Affect as a sign og mimesis at work" ... I am wondering would you consider
negative affect as also sign of mimesis at work, such as to the effect of
affecting non participants among the "girls" on XMCA.
> Some thoughts before they're even half-baked: IF we can assume that mimesis
> is at work in any communicative act -- both precondition for AND
> simultaneous operant in whatever gets talked about (the dynamically
> unfolding multilogue) THEN perhaps it may be the "missing part" (Luiz
> Ernesto Merkle) of the ecosocial system that drives the dynamically
> unfolding multi-logue. That which is missed/missing is a function of
> mimesis, the unrecognizable twin of whatever issues-focused talk we do --
> our search for MORE understanding than we already "have".... for the ever
> elusive completion.
>
> Things get pretty murky here for the analyst :)
> What do you think?
Before responding to this further, let me just admit that it's way past midnite
for me here (and after marking a bunch of student's papers on Attribution
Theory), so, my thoughts are showing signs of clouding. I'm also thinking now
that I'm missing the point that I'm responding to you (nb: Bakhtin claimed that
comprehensible, articulated utterance elicit no response). Hence, my response. I
thought that I started this conversation to discuss about affect and identity on
XMCA, but it seems that we've strayed ...
And Mike said something like ...
"Victoria--
You ask:
Does this mean that
identification necessitate affect, such as positive motivation and personal
interest bordering even fun and amusement, thus crossing into comfortable
zone. The consequence is a postive identity within such community of
practice?
I am not sure that positive motivatin and interest bordering on fun
and amusement have positive identity in a COP as a necessary consequence,
but they sure do help.
mike"
So, mike, would you consider the above about affect and ID in COP as both overt
process and consequence in 5th D?
Thanks for your responses, folks.
Victoria
> Judith
>
> Judith Diamondstone (732) 932-7496 Ext. 352
> Graduate School of Education
> Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey
> 10 Seminary Place
> New Brunswick, NJ 08901-1183Victoria wrote:
> there have been in the past a number of mails bordering on
> >informality and on friendly self disclosure, thus crossing into more
> >personal genre of speech and conjuring an image of a friendly community and
> >"comfortable zone" of interaction. It brings to mind of Bakhtin's discussion
> >on "The problem of speech genres", where he claimed, "An absolutely
> >understood and completed sentence, if it is a sentence and not an utterance
> >comprised of one sentence, cannot evoke a responsive reaction: it is
> >comprehensible, but it is still not all."
> >
> >In articulating this, I am suggesting that perhaps, my identity as a
> >observer (passive/inactive etc) participant in XMCA in the past (up till
> >now) has only been that of a somewhat disengaged member, watching the
> >"actions/interactions". This has been the case, in my short experience in
> >XMCA, when reading most mails that were "comprehensible, ... complete".
> >
> >But, in noticing mails that borders on the affect, I'm almost ready to jump
> >in response.... The same response is conjured too in
> >reading mails which raised more questions rather than those with complete
> >logically discussions.
> >
> >Relating this to identity and community of practice. Does this mean that
> >identification necessitate affect (?)
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