[Xmca-l] Re: Rio Tinto Zinc

Tue Sep 15 14:10:01 PDT 2020

Anthony often wonders whether there is any necessary connection between
Marxism and what he calls "leftism". Andy even has a video where he
suggests that making that connection is not a "helpful" way of thinking
about Marxist philosophy.

I get it. When we read "The HIstorical Sense of the Crisis in Psychology"
we hear Vygotsky asking his closest friends and collaborators NOT to use
the term Marxism when referring to their work, not only because he doesn't
want it associated with political pietism but also because he doesn't think
that the current method of "copy and paste" quotes from Marx and Engels is
yielding anything like a real Marxist psychology. (Interestingly, the late
Lucien Seve believed that this criticism was directed at Deborin, but Andy
thinks it is directed against mechanists like Bukharin).

But to me Anthony's question answers itself. What he calls "leftism" is
really just what Andy calls "world perezhivanie", it is sociogenesis made
into conscious awareness. That is, it is human societies confronted by
other societies and trying to change themselves rather than be changed.
When they do this, even if they do not recognize any "final, complete,
ideal form" (and Vygotsky says no such recognition is possible in Chapter
Four of Foundations of Pedology) they become aware that the principles of
blind adaptation themselves can be changed (as animals do) into those of
design. Contrary to individuals adapting to the environment, societies
that look after the old, the young, and the sick are made stronger and
better, because the whole course of development is deliberate and indirect
adaptation rather than blind and direct.     .

I think, Martin, that both Lenin and Trotsky believed strongly in the
evitability of capitalism, and both considered it to be the key question of
their time, both in the Russian and in the incipient Chinese revolution.
They did come up with different solutions, and you are right to say that
Lenin's solution lent itself much more easily to Stalin's believe in the
five universal stages of human society (primitive communism, slavery,
feudalism, capitalism and socialism). Lenin believed that the capitalist
development of the Russian empire (which of course included many
non-capitalist societies) can and should be stopped by a "democratic
dictatorship of the proletariat and the peasantry", which would bring in
capitalism but exercise dictatorship over the capitalists themselves,
ensuring that the democratic tasks of the revolution (ensuring franchise to
the disenfranchised, including land to the tillers) were carried out in a
way that would enable a transition to socialism (withering away the state,
common ownership of land). Trotsky believed that no capitalist stage would
be necessary, because there would be revolutions in Germany, England,
France, and above all the USA, and the world organization of production
would allow non-capitalist societies to develop from primitive communism to
true communism.

When Joseph Glick wrote his "Prologue" to Volume Four of the (English)
Vygotsky Collected Works, he argued that one reason why Vygotsky was so
important to educators in the post-Piaget era was that he offered a way of
doing without universal Piagetian stages. We now know, from the pedological
work, that Vygotsky had his own stages in mind. But we still don't know if
he saw the stages as evitable the way that Lenin did or whether he
believed, as did Trotsky, in permanent revolution.

(By the way, Renee Van der Veer has now published a translation of
"Pedology of School Age"--in English!)

https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.amazon.com/dp/B08D6WDK3H/ref=pe_385040_118058080_TE_M1DP__;!!Mih3wA!SrpIrAAR8TbxIJDvFPI-ToFM1WKVl9U0uJJT8Q-kFMIF0SS9DZiNZNL9-jnI1h3vDY-n9g$ 
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08D6WDK3H/ref=pe_385040_118058080_TE_M1DP__;!!Mih3wA!SrpIrAAR8TbxIJDvFPI-ToFM1WKVl9U0uJJT8Q-kFMIF0SS9DZiNZNL9-jnI1h0ETuXihA$ >

David Kellogg
Sangmyung University

New article in Mind, Culture, and Activity:
Realizations: non-causal but real relationships in and between Halliday,
Hasan, and Vygotsky

Some free e-prints today available at:
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/Y8YHS3SRW42VXPTVY2Z6/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1806329__;Lw!!Mih3wA!SrpIrAAR8TbxIJDvFPI-ToFM1WKVl9U0uJJT8Q-kFMIF0SS9DZiNZNL9-jnI1h2f7BKdEA$ 

New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works
Volume One: Foundations of Pedology"
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!SrpIrAAR8TbxIJDvFPI-ToFM1WKVl9U0uJJT8Q-kFMIF0SS9DZiNZNL9-jnI1h0O4IyFmQ$ 

On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 1:00 AM Martin Packer <mpacker@cantab.net> wrote:

> capitalism, and hence the idea of nature as capital, is no universal stage
> (contrary to what Stalin taught).
>
>
> This happens to be something I’ve been thinking about recently — the
> ‘evitability’ (avoidability, as opposed to inevitability) of capitalism.
> I’ve been reading some of the work of Douglass North, who won a Nobel prize
> in economics in 1993 for his analysis of the role that institutions have
> played in economic ‘development,’ He thought  he was describing how the
> West achieved ‘progress’ and has been able to ‘evolve’ further than other
> regions, but one can read his work as describing alternative pathways in
> the formation of economic systems, which in the West has led to an
> imbalance in which profit and growth have become the only measures of
> societal and individual achievement.
>
> A neat illustration: the NY Times has been publishing reflections upon an
> article written 50 years ago by Milton Friedman titled "The Social
> Responsibility Of Business Is to Increase Its Profits." Friedman wrote:
>
> WHEN I hear businessmen speak eloquently about the
> “social responsibilities of business in a free‐enterprise system,” I am
> reminded of the wonderful line about the Frenchman who discovered at, the
> age of 70 that he had been speaking prose all his life. The
> businessmen believe that they are defending free enterprise when they
> declaim that business is not concerned “merely” with profit but also with
> promoting desirable “social” ends; that business has a “social conscience”
> and takes seriously its responsibilities for providing
> employment, eliminating discrimination, avoiding pollution and whatever
> else may be the catchwords of the contemporary crop of reformers. In fact
> they are—or would be if they or any one else took them seriously—
> preaching pure and unadulterated socialism. Businessmen who talk this way
> are unwitting puppets of the intellectual forces that have been
> undermining the basis of a free society these past decades.
>
>
> It will be hard to find a better statement of the ideology that has got us
> all into the current mess.
>
> On the left, was it with Lenin that capitalism became viewed as a
> necessary prerequisite to socialism? For example, as I understand it after
> the revolution in Mexico, 1910-1920, the PRI (Partido Revolucionario
> Institucional) worked hard to turn the indigenous peoples into a
> proletariat. This was the only way they could imagine societal progress:
> quickly moving the country into capitalism so as to achieve socialism. I
> conclude that it was not only Stalin who taught this.
>
> Martin
>
>
> On Sep 14, 2020, at 9:57 PM, David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If you click on the link that Henry, and before him John, offered, you get
> the pro-natural-capital side of a debate in the pages of the Guardian on
> whether or not "nature" can be valued as capital and whether it is good or
> bad for nature for humans to do this. I think that in CHAT, we are indebted
> to Marx for many things, but surely one debt we would do well not to
> disavow is Marx's insistence (in Critique of the Gotha programme and
> elsewhere) that nature is NOT capital: on the contrary, humans and all of
> their various property forms from communism to capitalism must be
> considered peculiar forms of nature. This is a discussion that CHAT needs
> to have if we are going to retain the AT in CHAT. I disagree with Peter
> Jones on many many things, but one thing I heartily agree with him on is
> the idea that Leontiev brings an intensely anti-naturalistic view of
> activity into activity theory--humans acting as subjects on passive
> environments to produce beneficial outcomes.
>
> Marx had a better idea: in the Ethnological Notebooks, he shows us that
> capitalism, and hence the idea of nature as capital, is no universal stage
> (contrary to what Stalin taught). Western capitalism, with its idea of
> nature as capital, is really  just one extreme variant. In Marx's columns
> on the Sepoy rebellion and the Taiping rebellion, he even posits an
> "Asiantic mode of production" that had virtually nothing to do with
> feudalism. So to say that South Korea and Japan are equally capitalist
> societies is really a little like saying that China and the USSR were
> equally non-capitalist. Deus Sive Natura: and neither one is capital.
>
> David Kellogg
> Sangmyung University
>
> New article in Mind, Culture, and Activity:
> Realizations: non-causal but real relationships in and between Halliday,
> Hasan, and Vygotsky
>
> Some free e-prints today available at:
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/Y8YHS3SRW42VXPTVY2Z6/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1806329__;Lw!!Mih3wA!SrpIrAAR8TbxIJDvFPI-ToFM1WKVl9U0uJJT8Q-kFMIF0SS9DZiNZNL9-jnI1h2f7BKdEA$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/Y8YHS3SRW42VXPTVY2Z6/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1806329__;Lw!!Mih3wA!W-RPX1ECIuKav0e-i1es3roVHR0WUtjgmoG2iARQqbybBsxElYTIACu53v3cWm487oUiBw$>
>
> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works
> Volume One: Foundations of Pedology"
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!SrpIrAAR8TbxIJDvFPI-ToFM1WKVl9U0uJJT8Q-kFMIF0SS9DZiNZNL9-jnI1h0O4IyFmQ$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!W-RPX1ECIuKav0e-i1es3roVHR0WUtjgmoG2iARQqbybBsxElYTIACu53v3cWm7NjX5sJQ$>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 3:43 AM HENRY SHONERD <hshonerd@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Martin, John and Andy
>> Thanks to Martin for kicking off this topic and John and Andy for
>> following up. I has amazed me to find, for me, how the RTZ narrative
>> resonates with both Navajo and Pueblo narratives here in New Mexico. How
>> evil RTZ  is, but how wonderful the courage of our native peoples!
>>
>> Chaco Canyon IS a tourist destination here in New Mexico. Though there
>> has been no destruction of the site that, based on Native American
>> narratives and the efforts of archeologists, is architecturally spectacular
>> evidence of the pre-Colombian culture from which the present-day Pueblos
>> come. What parallels RTZ activities on aboriginal lands in Australia is the
>> drilling for gas and oil on Navajo lands surrounding Chaco and a rush to
>> buy more rights while Trump is in power. There have been protests, though
>> nothing as intense and effective as the Standing Rock protests to protect
>> water on native lands to our north and east from gas and oil predation (the
>> pipeline). Standing Rock was LED by Native Americans, many from the Navajo,
>> Apache and Pueblo near me.
>>
>> I just saw yesterday a 30-year-old film that is one of the offerings of
>> the Vision Maker Film Festival: Clear Cut. I recommend it, or at least a
>> look at the wiki article about it. It couldn’t be more timely. It’s messy,
>> where contention between environmental and logging interests and division
>> WITHIN the native community (traditon vs. jobs) leave one stunned. What
>> redeems a messy struggle is exactly what Andy says: The aboriginal people
>> of the world do it for us! In the same way, when “our” Pueblos put on
>> feasts and invite us in to witness their dances, they do it for us. Perhaps
>> you recall the movie “Koyaniskaatsi”, la Hopi word that has been translated
>> as "life out of balance". (The Hopis are a Puebloan people, descendants of
>> the Chacoan culture. The Navajos and Apaches arrived here about the same
>> time as the European colonizers, based on linguistic and genetic evidence.)
>> If you live in New Mexico, you are around Pueblo people. If you are really
>> lucky, and many of us are, you become friends with them and they invite you
>> to share their food at the feasts! How generous is this? They do it for us.
>>
>> The RTZ narrative is not only destructive to cultural capital, it is
>> implicated in natural capital (
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2015/nov/23/monbiot-natural-capital-wrong-conservation__;!!Mih3wA!SrpIrAAR8TbxIJDvFPI-ToFM1WKVl9U0uJJT8Q-kFMIF0SS9DZiNZNL9-jnI1h13gI_sQA$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2015/nov/23/monbiot-natural-capital-wrong-conservation__;!!Mih3wA!SBdL369rv5LA2eUVglK7x1RO_gnzeKTtEL3aixjV1TAMOI-HkqMNbHUWvJAN5h7atm8Krw$>)
>> via climate change. (The link here, to a Guardian article is available
>> through the first link in John’s post). Here again we should look to our
>> native peoples. There is credible research that concludes the climate
>> change lengthens fire seasons but wrong-headed environmental policies make
>> the fires more intense, hence less controllable. Add to this the incursion
>> of housing into forested areas and the destruction is a doubly
>> self-inflicted wound. And hold on for this one for the best CHAT
>> connection: Native peoples of this continent used to set controlled burns
>> to remove the kind of unburnt fuel to avoid such conflagrations. Today some
>> of  the best-trained and most effective firefighters in this country are
>> Native Americans. Cultural capital. They do it for us, and their example
>> from the past can serve us now. Cultural capital.
>>
>> I believe I have crowed before about New Mexico and our Native Americans.
>> Australia has crowing rights as well. And, for standing proud, there’s
>> nothing like an anthem. The best anthem music I have EVER heard comes from
>> Australia: Yothu Yindi What a great project that brings together white
>> people and people of color. What great creative collaboration. Andy, I am
>> telling you again, project is a great unit of analysis, precisely because
>> it brings together cognition and affect, because it embodies active
>> orientation. In my country, it is pretty well agreed that the natives got
>> screwed, across the political divide. Black Lives Matter is more complex,
>> but there is hope that the question of race is now where LGBTQ issues were
>> at the time of the AIDS crisis, in the last century. Back then we could
>> never have guessed we would be where we are with non-gender-conforming
>> acceptance now. Just saying, as much for myself as for anybody else
>> listening.
>>
>> La Era Está Pariendo Un Corazón
>> Henry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 13, 2020, at 8:09 PM, Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>>
>> Er. " *NO *physical markers"
>> ------------------------------
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Hegel for Social Movements
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!S5K6-3pAdjVKLQOipHOtp4mkhFhXR1sxkXKZDQnO0A7C1xQKXN0SUjkqI9KbXmCMTCf0iQ$>
>> Home Page
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!S5K6-3pAdjVKLQOipHOtp4mkhFhXR1sxkXKZDQnO0A7C1xQKXN0SUjkqI9KbXmDbUUpHdA$>
>> On 14/09/2020 11:43 am, Andy Blunden wrote:
>>
>> Firstly, an apology. I replied on the list before noticing that John had
>> already responded, and John is much better informed than me about these
>> matters, and yet I spoke as if he didn't exist. My apologies.
>>
>> These caves are nothing for tourism. They are too remote and there are
>> others more accessible. I believe the caves have been under Native Title as
>> a result of a bitter struggle to protect them by the local people in the
>> 1990s. This means that RTZ had to get permission from the PKK people. The
>> lawyers swindled them.
>>
>> In my view, all these sites which are not only part of Aboriginal
>> heritage (there are places which have *NO *physical markers of their
>> status but are sacred to the local people) but self-evidently of *world*
>> heritage. But I don't think these caves were registered as World Heritage.
>> I have not heard the discussion about this (John?). No-one wants to say
>> this, I think, because it implies that Indigenous values are somehow less
>> important than human values. For example, under the law as it stands the
>> PKK Land Council would have a right to let RTZ destroy the caves and maybe
>> a million dollars or two in the bank or a new school, would be enough. This
>> is not a hypothetical. One of the reasons that the Indigenous people remain
>> impoverished even where they have Native Title over large areas of land, is
>> that they live, after all, in a capitalist country and Native title cannot
>> be sold. It is not a commodity. Therefore it is not a form of wealth. You
>> can't get a mortgage to build a house on land you own by Native title.  You
>> can't sell a block to a farmer so you can buy agricultural equipment to
>> farm another block. In short, by blocking the Indigenous people from
>> monetising their land rights we trap them in poverty. In general, the
>> indigenous people are happy to forgo tourist income to protect their sacred
>> sites (e.g. Uluru) and I don't doubt for an instant, that if they'd been
>> properly consulted they never would have agreed to the destruction of the
>> caves. Obviously. But they do have to have rights to trade with their land.
>> But also the world needs to keep absolutely unique archaeological sites
>> pristine and the local people should be supported by governments to do the
>> work of protecting them on *our* behalf. Recognising the great cost
>> entailed.
>>
>> Andy
>> ------------------------------
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Hegel for Social Movements
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!XARa5o_f0_F8FwoOvEi2G83w7OupjEw0Qs4sAopd9iMJNxF19MT9A4BOkNVcEAAZnw4ahQ$>
>> Home Page
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!XARa5o_f0_F8FwoOvEi2G83w7OupjEw0Qs4sAopd9iMJNxF19MT9A4BOkNVcEABlTgxfKw$>
>> On 14/09/2020 4:53 am, Martin Packer wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, John and Andy,
>>
>> I suppose that I am naive, for this event astonishes me in so many
>> different ways. I would have assumed that the land title or native title
>> granted to indigenous peoples over some territory in Australia would have
>> included the Juuken Gorge caves. I would have assumed that these caves were
>> a national cultural heritage site, or even a world cultural heritage site.
>> I would have assumed that indigenous rights would have more importance to
>> the Australian government, and indeed to the Australian people. I would
>> have assumed that, while mining is apparently of great economic importance
>> to the country, the government would have considered the economic value of
>> this site for tourism, or simply the impact that destroying the caves would
>> have on Australia’s reputation. And while I suppose that unbridled
>> rapaciousness on the part of an international mining company is hardly a
>> surprise, I would have thought that Rio Tinto would also have considered
>> the negative publicity that their actions would create.
>>
>> How can we express our displeasure to the various parties involved? Are
>> there petitions that one can sign? Or Twitter accounts to which one can
>> tweet?
>>
>> I wonder how much the salary is of (ex) CEO Jean-Sebastien Jacques, if
>> his bonus this year would have been A$4.9 million. Perhaps he could donate
>> a few years of his salary to establish a foundation that could work for
>> indigenous peoples’ rights.
>>
>> sadly
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 12, 2020, at 8:59 PM, John Cripps Clark <
>> john.crippsclark@deakin.edu.au> wrote:
>>
>> The destruction of the Juunken Gorge caves (which I assume you are
>> referring to) is a much more villainous act than was originally portrayed
>> and reflects the venal racism not only of the company but also of the State
>> Government. For those not familiar with this shocking crime, the $80b Anglo
>> Australian mining company which on Sunday 24th of May blew up a site sacred
>> to the Puutu Kunti Kurrama and Pinikura (PKKP) traditional owners and
>> occupied for 46,000 years at least, to extend iron ore mining. "“It’s one
>> of the most sacred sites in the Pilbara region … we wanted to have that
>> area protected,” PKKP director Burchell Hayes. The traditional owners tried
>> desperately to stop the blast once they became aware it was impending.
>>
>> At the time Rio Tinto claimed "Clearly there was a misunderstanding" but
>> and, after much outrage, the three members of the executive had their multi
>> million dollar bonuses reduced. It has subsequently emerged that Rio Tinto
>> had contracted lawyers to oppose any injunctions before the crime was
>> committed. The chief executive and two of his underlings have resigned.
>>
>> The crime was legal and was made possible by State Government laws which
>> are stacked in favour of miners. Assessments of the cultural and
>> environmental significance are made with little investigation and remain in
>> place for decades and have rarely been successfully be challenged. No
>> permission to destroy heritage sites in WA has been refused (and there have
>> been 463 applications).
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-31/wa-heritage-destroyed-by-rio-tinto-example-of-national-trend/12305298__;!!Mih3wA!Q80d_k7DkHBzzs0yi4W5IfiSTlRupZ8XOxiOsNcARSHE8ZZrLW7G-oWoAnKstsuUT5a7UQ$
>>
>> It is not as if we didn’t know that this would happen. Norway's pension
>> fund divested their holdings in Rio Tinto in 2008: "Exclusion of a company
>> from the Fund reflects our unwillingness to run an unacceptable risk of
>> contributing to grossly unethical conduct. The Council on Ethics has
>> concluded that Rio Tinto is directly involved, through its participation in
>> the Grasberg mine in Indonesia, in the severe environmental damage caused
>> by that mining operation."
>>    — Kristin Halvorsen, Norwegian Minister of Finance
>>
>> A useful background briefing of indigenous rights in Australia:
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/rearvision/features/in-the-shadow-of-terra-nullius/__;!!Mih3wA!Q80d_k7DkHBzzs0yi4W5IfiSTlRupZ8XOxiOsNcARSHE8ZZrLW7G-oWoAnKstssDCtcsSw$
>>
>> On 13/9/20, 12:26 am, "xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of
>> Martin Packer" <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of
>> mpacker@cantab.net> wrote:
>>
>>    Andy, what on earth has Rio Tinto Zinc been up to??
>>
>>    Martin
>>
>>
>>
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