[Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: [New post] Why generations?

Fri Nov 27 18:02:11 PST 2020

Thank you for offering up a risk in this community, Beth.

I feel this too. It might in fact be one of the biggest risks because I
experience this online and offline too (on teams in my work, in the
classroom, even in my extended family). Being met with silence has the
effect of making you feel as though your voice is not audible, does not
exist. Erasure. I hope we can do some restorative work on this forum (and
the other discourse communities we are in for that matter) so that we can
find, welcome, embrace (and retrieve) those lost voices.

Side note, retrieving lost voice is a cultural practice in Zimbabwe. I once
worked on an article about that sensation of voicelessness but never
published it because it felt too deeply personal or like something
nobody would want to hear, talk about, or find valuable.

On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 3:32 PM Beth Ferholt <bferholt@gmail.com> wrote:

> Keeping at bay the deficit model takes a lot of time and energy, is all I
> mean.  B.
>
> On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 6:27 PM Beth Ferholt <bferholt@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Correction: We must of course fight in private and with a few
>> select supporters -- but not ONLY this way, the fighting for this cause
>> must also be demanded of all members -- and is there not a way to give some
>> kind of credit for this labor that works towards tenure and promotion (a
>> title?)? ... actually, that last is a serious question. Beth
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 6:10 PM Beth Ferholt <bferholt@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Zara invited other risks -- Thank you for asking us all! -- I would like
>>> to add:
>>>
>>> 6.  "If I say something and there is only silence ... and then I say
>>> something else and there is only silence, again ... how will I remember
>>> that this is Not just the evidence I need to prove that I should have
>>> remained in another profession, where people understood me when I spoke?"
>>> *The design question we can ask ourselves: *How do we sustain our
>>> collective work to help all members to hold at bay the pernicious deficit
>>> model, never thinking that this is a battle we each must fight in private
>>> and alone, or with a few select supporters?  How do we help all of us to
>>> remember that this fight takes active and ongoing as well as collective
>>> work, and that for each success story against the odds we have lost 100's
>>> of voices -- and often the voices of those with the most valuable (as they
>>> are rare in the field) perspectives for the field?  Can we each be
>>> supported as long as necessary as we "learn to ride this particular
>>> kind of bike" (or adjust the bike so that we can ride it), providing only
>>> that we have the desire to try?
>>>
>>> #7. ??
>>>
>>> Beth
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 5:37 PM Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Wow! That is a really useful post, Zaza. I have bookmarked it.
>>>>
>>>> I think your suggestion to frame xmca in terms of "risk" is very
>>>> productive.
>>>> Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> andy
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>>> Hegel for Social Movements
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.haymarketbooks.org/books/1484-hegel-for-social-movements__;!!Mih3wA!SBkmBkhWhBnjWkghRbECZoK90gYyR9xX7PrktzIstGwEZ2sa4rY9UyfIoQi8rpUwQ0cvqg$>
>>>> Home Page
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!SBkmBkhWhBnjWkghRbECZoK90gYyR9xX7PrktzIstGwEZ2sa4rY9UyfIoQi8rpW1h-ftPQ$>
>>>> On 28/11/2020 7:51 am, Zaza Kabayadondo wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I follow a lot of the discussions on xmca but rarely post. Despite many
>>>> very warm invitations from Mike and others, I have only posted on this
>>>> forum 3 times since joining in 2014. I read about 80% of the threads.
>>>>
>>>> So to the question, "isn't any adult xmca member allowed to type..."
>>>> here's are my thoughts:
>>>>
>>>> I'm a millennial so I have been observing online discussion forum
>>>> blowouts since I was about 16. People who look like me (black, female,
>>>> immigrant) get trolled online all the time. I'm not saying xmca has trolls
>>>> but I've become conditioned to worry about the risks of posting in any
>>>> online forum. As a general rule it is safer not to get sucked in - to watch
>>>> but not to get blood on my hands. I am only an active poster in groups
>>>> where I trust the members and feel safe in, even when I don't know all the
>>>> members. So what I asked myself what is it about xmca that makes me feel
>>>> like I have to be super careful about what I post? What makes this group
>>>> feel "unsafe" or "toxic". In other words, what makes it feel *risky*
>>>> to post something on xmca? Below I've listed the 5 risks that I worry
>>>> about. There are more, certainly, but I picked just the first few to start
>>>> and paired them with some design questions I think we should be asking
>>>> about how to design the community we want here.
>>>>
>>>> 1. "What is the context for this post? I think I get it but are we
>>>> talking about the same thing?"
>>>> *The design question we can ask ourselves**:* What can we do to
>>>> provide better context, in a way that invites more members to add to an
>>>> original post?
>>>>
>>>> 2. "I'm only marginally familiar with this topic, I'm curious but I
>>>> won't ask questions but I don't have the energy to be "schooled" on this
>>>> today." *The design questions we can ask ourselves:* How can we be
>>>> argumentative, informative, without being toxic? What is the best way to
>>>> engage novices and experts in this topic?
>>>>
>>>> 3. "Who else is out there, reading this? I don't know who I'm talking
>>>> to except the 5 or so active members"
>>>> *The design question we can ask ourselves:* What can we do as a
>>>> community to learn more about each other, our work, and our domains of
>>>> focus or ways of applying CHAT.
>>>>
>>>> 4. "If I post this will it turn into a long and laborious (unpleasant)
>>>> email exchange? Am I ready for a fight in this space?"
>>>> *The design question we can ask ourselves:* How do we bring critique
>>>> without criticism? How do we sustain conversation without putting the
>>>> burden on only the original poster?
>>>>
>>>> 5. "Dude, I don't read or speak Russian so I have nothing to say about
>>>> the translation from the original."
>>>> *The design question we can ask ourselves: *How do we get around the
>>>> challenges of casual and virtual engagement; and the challenge of not
>>>> knowing who this community is or if what I (each of us) can contribute will
>>>> be valuable to the community.
>>>>
>>>> So this is why, for me, it's not so straightforward to say anyone can
>>>> post. I'd love to see what other "risks" people have perceived. I'd also
>>>> love to be part of doing something about addressing them, because I do
>>>> think this forum has the potential to be an incredible community for more
>>>> than just a handful of members.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 12:35 PM Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Um, isn't any adult xmca member allowed to type what he or she wishes
>>>>> and then click the Send button?
>>>>>
>>>>> This talk of stifling, excluding, suppressing, etc is confusing to
>>>>> me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe this is something only someone on the left can understand?
>>>>>
>>>>> If people want to post a comment, question, remark, new topic, etc,
>>>>> they should just do it. Who cares if it's not automatically received with
>>>>> open arms or agreement?  Isn't that half the fun?
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there really that much pressure and/or backstabbing in academia?
>>>>> Shouldn't the accomplishment of reaching that level come with the freedom
>>>>> to speak openly? As one on the outside, I guess I'm naive to these
>>>>> pressures. But nonetheless, they seem really counterproductive to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Naively (I suppose),
>>>>>
>>>>> Anthony
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, November 27, 2020, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Great to see your voice, Phillip. Its been a while.
>>>>>> I, too, have been thinking about the long history of xmca's inability
>>>>>> to create a level and welcoming playing field. I mourn
>>>>>> the days when Mary Bryson, Susanne Castell and Eva Ekblad would
>>>>>> conduct pointed lessons for those participating in the discussion
>>>>>> for their utter blindness to issues of gender. And we have seen the
>>>>>> correctness of Foucault's reminder of our inability to know
>>>>>> with any certainty the effects of our speech actions too often to
>>>>>> enumerate. Being "put on the spot," as you say, is a clear example of a
>>>>>> discourse practice that discourages participation from those who are
>>>>>> intimidated for fear of being seen as misguided or of offending some
>>>>>> senior person who will, one day, be writing a letter of
>>>>>> recommendation for a scarce job.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I, too, welcomed all of Arturo's notes and those over everyone
>>>>>> else. The crack in American society opened up by the BLM, Metoo,
>>>>>> covid disruption, television of police murders, ...... has brought us
>>>>>> the presence of young scholars sympathetic to, but critical of, Vygotsky
>>>>>> and the
>>>>>> tradition we refer to as CHAT. They are also scholars who are adept
>>>>>> in, and leaders in, the use of digital media for reorganizing educational
>>>>>> practices at both the colleague and elementary school levels in a
>>>>>> manner that does not put learners on the spot but affords a variety of
>>>>>> desired
>>>>>> pedagogical outcomes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Inspired by the elderly voices who remember that this problem did not
>>>>>> spring out of the ether, but is baked into the way that xmca and
>>>>>> before it xlchc, developed-- against the explicit wishes and designs
>>>>>> of its creators.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At the following link in the lchcautobio you will find a report,
>>>>>> written in 1992 by two former post-docs at lchc about the beginnings of
>>>>>> xlchc, its
>>>>>> transformation into xmca as a way amplify the feedback that xmca
>>>>>> authors received (this only worked well a couple of times, precisely
>>>>>> because of
>>>>>> the issues being raised here for the past week).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/XLCHC-PDFs/Finkelstein-Gack_Seeds-of-XLCHC.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There you will see all of the problems that we encountered when LCHC
>>>>>> tried to expand beyond the face to face practices in order to keep
>>>>>> former students, post-docs, and visitors in touch with each other on
>>>>>> a working basis as a way to work around the discriminatory institutional
>>>>>> that restricted our ability to maintain an integrated collective. A
>>>>>> lot of smart, experienced, people tried  (Yro, Jim Wertch, ...It failed, as
>>>>>> we are witnessing.
>>>>>> Time for the next generation to join the discussion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Like Phillip, I feel I have written enough, probably too much.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks for reading this far if you have!
>>>>>> stay safe. take care
>>>>>> mike  😷
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I, personally, have been lectured regularly by colleagues who lament,
>>>>>> xmca's failure to overcome its white male, gender-blind
>>>>>> bias
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 9:40 AM White, Phillip <
>>>>>> Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> dear Everyone:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thinking over all of the posts as an aggregate, rather that
>>>>>>> individually referencing them, regarding marginalization of xmca members,
>>>>>>> i'm reminded that this has been a topic over the last twenty-five years,
>>>>>>> that i've noticed.  only this time, the response is different in both
>>>>>>> quality and quantity, as well as introducing shared tools of analysis -
>>>>>>> which in my mind i believe is in part due to BLM activism, and certainly a
>>>>>>> newer and younger generation of colleagues here on xmca with a mindful use
>>>>>>> of our shared professional ethnographic tools. which i appreciate, greatly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> as any native english speaker knows, the term - to put someone on
>>>>>>> the spot - elicits the synonyms:
>>>>>>> embarass - humiliate - shame - inhibit - tease - degrade - crush -
>>>>>>> wither - show up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> if the intention was to praise the student, why then weren't words
>>>>>>> of praise - for example: "Thank you for that question.  I myself have
>>>>>>> wondered about that evolution."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i'm reminded of Foucault: People know what they do; frequently they
>>>>>>> know why they do what they do; but what they don't know is what what they
>>>>>>> do does."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> in Brandon Taylor's novel Real Life, the narrator notes that in
>>>>>>> social gatherings when a white person makes a casually racist comment to a
>>>>>>> person of color, the whites remain silent, preferring not to move out of
>>>>>>> their own comfort level.  really, nothing was lost in translation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> from my perspective, there is too much protection here on xmca of
>>>>>>> both white fragilities, as well as white hetero-normative male fragility.
>>>>>>> and one way to work around this is practice - i humbly suggest - is that
>>>>>>> those who self-identify as CIS white male could begin to point out points
>>>>>>> of view that support white hetero-normative supremacy.  the burden for this
>>>>>>> should not be placed on those already socially marginalized.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i'm reminded that in a class i taught for those working to get their
>>>>>>> master's degree in education, that when i would assign Bryant Keith
>>>>>>> Alexander's "(Re)Visioning the Ethnographic Site: Interpretive Ethnography
>>>>>>> as a Method of Pedagogical Reflexivity and Scholarly Production" - in which
>>>>>>> Alexander used the metaphor of pedagogy as drag - i would get blow-back
>>>>>>> from some students complaining that since they had no personal contacts
>>>>>>> with gay men, much-less gay men in drag, that they should not have to read
>>>>>>> the ethnography.  my response was that since they had no experience, this
>>>>>>> was a good way to start since they had no knowledge of who their students
>>>>>>> were, or their parents.  Yet within their classroom, or school community
>>>>>>> they worked in, there very well could be these life experiences.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i'm feeling that i've written enough - this is such a richly complex
>>>>>>> topic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and so i'm grateful for Arturo's inadvertently public response - it
>>>>>>> was illuminating.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  phillip
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I[image: Angelus Novus]
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelus_Novus__;!!Mih3wA!S7fCXtTCVQWkCXnNSwdyFfFitd3dB8EuTUKFK0sSSJdSy8_M6BJohNdCkFQYltd7V6VOEQ$>The
>>>>>> Angel's View of History
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The organism, by its life activities, creates what is outside.  So
>>>>>> organisms create the conditions of their own future
>>>>>> which is different from their past" Richard Lewontin
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cultural Praxis Website: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net__;!!Mih3wA!SdHYGNC4p534j9pNr2cVxAguTdV8QP89w-dManESLxsah9Q9dCt30yIzB1NaykAl8gXRoQ$ 
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net__;!!Mih3wA!S7fCXtTCVQWkCXnNSwdyFfFitd3dB8EuTUKFK0sSSJdSy8_M6BJohNdCkFQYltd1dis3rA$>
>>>>>> Re-generating CHAT Website: re-generatingchat.com
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://re-generatingchat.com__;!!Mih3wA!S7fCXtTCVQWkCXnNSwdyFfFitd3dB8EuTUKFK0sSSJdSy8_M6BJohNdCkFQYltesckucQg$>
>>>>>> Archival resources website: lchc.ucsd.edu.
>>>>>> Narrative history of LCHC:  lchcautobio.ucsd.edu.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> To schedule up a 30 minute call using Calendly:
>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://calendly.com/with-zaza__;!!Mih3wA!SdHYGNC4p534j9pNr2cVxAguTdV8QP89w-dManESLxsah9Q9dCt30yIzB1NaykDH7A9elA$ 
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://calendly.com/with-zaza__;!!Mih3wA!XqyD32PqUjrECjiznbMVU0BJd3EV7WR_MpV6AorPmT9jGyRTOd3p228sBZf1TP7e_DD-Hw$>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Beth Ferholt (pronouns: she/her/hers)
>>> Associate Professor
>>> Department of Early Childhood and Art Education
>>> Brooklyn College, City University of New York
>>>
>>> Affiliated Faculty, Program in Urban Education, CUNY Graduate Center
>>> Affiliated Faculty, School of Education and Communication, Jönköping
>>> University
>>>
>>> Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
>>> CC bferholt@gmail.com if writing to CUNY address.
>>> Phone: (718) 951-5205
>>> Office: 2306 James Hall
>>> 2900 Bedford Avenue
>>> Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Beth Ferholt (pronouns: she/her/hers)
>> Associate Professor
>> Department of Early Childhood and Art Education
>> Brooklyn College, City University of New York
>>
>> Affiliated Faculty, Program in Urban Education, CUNY Graduate Center
>> Affiliated Faculty, School of Education and Communication, Jönköping
>> University
>>
>> Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
>> CC bferholt@gmail.com if writing to CUNY address.
>> Phone: (718) 951-5205
>> Office: 2306 James Hall
>> 2900 Bedford Avenue
>> Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
>>
>
>
> --
> Beth Ferholt (pronouns: she/her/hers)
> Associate Professor
> Department of Early Childhood and Art Education
> Brooklyn College, City University of New York
>
> Affiliated Faculty, Program in Urban Education, CUNY Graduate Center
> Affiliated Faculty, School of Education and Communication, Jönköping
> University
>
> Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> CC bferholt@gmail.com if writing to CUNY address.
> Phone: (718) 951-5205
> Office: 2306 James Hall
> 2900 Bedford Avenue
> Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
>

-- 
To schedule up a 30 minute call using Calendly:
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