[Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: [New post] Why generations?

Wed Nov 25 11:14:43 PST 2020

Dear all,

Anthony - I think there is not a permission to share the full video, as the
clip was taken from the course material.

I think it is important to see beyond this one conflict to a pattern in
which many people feel marginalized from the conversation. Like Arturo, I
also know a large number of people who opt out from participating in xmca
because they feel that the way of communicating is hostile and exclusive.
Certainly, there is no easy way to address and handle these contradictions
in a constructive manner but these issues do deserve a discussion, I
believe.

Best wishes, Antti

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 at 20:36, Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you for your clarification, Arturo.
>
> I completely agree that the discussion henceforth should focus on the
> video at hand!
>
> If I may, however:
>
> Andy wrote the following, and yet was called a jerk, insignificant,
> powerless, etc: "I never intended my message to frame Anna's question as
> "adversarial." Of course it was genuine! It is also true that many people
> have been wanting an answer to this question and I meant to applaud Anna
> for posing the question to Yjro. As it happens Yrjo gave an excellent
> answer to the question. He both explained how it has led to unfortunate
> misunderstandings of which he was well aware, and the original, perfectly
> good meaning that the term has.  Obviously I am upset that what I intended
> as praise for Anna's action has been construed in this way. One lives, one
> learns. I am sorry. I hope now that xmca-ers who are interested in Yrjo's
> work will have a look at the video and maybe make a comment on it, and we
> will all have learnt."
>
> Myself, on the other hand?  Read my remarks as uncharitably as you'd like,
> if that's your preference, although that was certainly not my intent -- and
> you can slander me too if that feels good, publicly or privately, though I
> don't see why.
>
> But the insults toward Andy, who gives often and freely and who was simply
> sharing an interesting video discussion, were inaccurate and unnecessary.
>
> Happy Thanksgiving, and happy quarantining to those of us locked down
> during the holidays. 😷
>
> Anthony
>
> P.S. On a better note, I believe Monica Lemos has the full video that
> Charles asked about today.  Perhaps she can share it with any interested
> parties. Thank you.
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 1:04 PM Arturo Cortez <cortez.arturo@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi, all.
>>
>> My apologies for sending out what was intended as a private message. One
>> of the things that may not be known is that many people of color and
>> femme-identified people in this group have off channel discussions about
>> the participation in this space. I cannot speak for all, but there is a
>> concern that xmca is hostile and toxic to us. What you saw was an extension
>> of that conversation. Specifically, it was a message from another colleague
>> asking how to provide support on this specific conversation.  My message
>> was a full unfiltered expression of my frustration with how I, as a person
>> of color and junior scholar, feel marginalized in this space.
>>
>> I’d like to invite any discussion from you all about this. But, in all
>> honesty I’d like us to focus back on the discussion between Anna and Dr.
>> Engeström.  Should others want to weigh in or speak with me personally feel
>> free to private message me.
>>
>> Again, my deepest apologies. I hope this conversation will open up new
>> ways for having dialogue in this space. In addition, I hope my inadvertent
>> private message will highlight how some of us feel and have expressed in
>> prior messages on this listserv. While brutally honest, this was an honest
>> mistake; a colleague reminded me.
>>
>> With regards,
>> Arturo
>>
>> Arturo Cortez, PhD
>>
>> Assistant Professor
>>
>> Teacher Learning, Research & Practice
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.colorado.edu/education/academics/graduate-programs/teacher-learning-research-practice__;!!Mih3wA!Wms1MwTQY1U9LeL4PxYaxFf3-zpw7tWFdagjOU1slyzkHdcsAefl9jrrashzVQ5O-PID0w$>
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
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>> .
>>
>> On Nov 25, 2020, at 09:23, Arturo Cortez <cortez.arturo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> For real!! Those fools ain’t worth your brilliance. But, real talk: did
>> Anthony Barra say that I misunderstood because of my language and culture?
>> That s**t is racist, if so.
>>
>> You doing alright? I need to figure out how to chill with you one day.
>> Wish we lived closer, but I know we’ll figure it out.
>>
>> Lots of love to you and your family. Thank you for checking in. And let’s
>> take a break from these jerks. I needed to make sure that student didn’t
>> get framed in a messed up way and I assumed there would be blowback. If
>> these fools had any power I’d be concerned. While their insignificance
>> annoys me, it annoys me further that they think anything they say matters
>> beyond their bubble and to that matter: I don’t think it is possible to
>> engage them in any reflection as it is impossible for them to apologize. So
>> check minus to them.
>>
>> Love you!!!
>>
>> Talk soon,
>> Arturo
>>
>> Arturo Cortez, PhD
>>
>> Assistant Professor
>>
>> Teacher Learning, Research & Practice
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.colorado.edu/education/academics/graduate-programs/teacher-learning-research-practice__;!!Mih3wA!Wms1MwTQY1U9LeL4PxYaxFf3-zpw7tWFdagjOU1slyzkHdcsAefl9jrrashzVQ5O-PID0w$>
>>
>> Learning Sciences & Human Development
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.colorado.edu/education/academics/graduate-programs/learning-sciences-human-development__;!!Mih3wA!Wms1MwTQY1U9LeL4PxYaxFf3-zpw7tWFdagjOU1slyzkHdcsAefl9jrrashzVQ6mruWNzg$>
>>
>> School of Education | UCB 249 | Room 314
>>
>> University of Colorado Boulder
>>
>> Ute, Cheyenne, and Arapaho Territories
>>
>> 415.261.3155 (mobile)
>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://cuboulder.zoom.us/my/arturocortez__;!!Mih3wA!QYhQET5zqqHPV5a016e1Tsy1jf4TlpIrtAXlvnILolW8p8wMnXKH450k9xJWVNaEp0SnNg$ 
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>>
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>> .
>>
>> On Nov 24, 2020, at 19:34, Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> You should not be upset, Andy, as there was nothing negative in the way
>> you introduced that video.
>>
>> Sometimes, in cross-cultural settings, a phrase or two can translate in
>> unexpected ways.  But that's a small price to pay, compared to the much
>> larger benefits of an international community.
>>
>> Happily, everyone is back on the same page now.  So keep your head high.
>>
>> Anthony
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 7:11 PM Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I never intended my message to frame Anna's question as "adversarial."
>>> Of course it was genuine! It is also true that many people have been
>>> wanting an answer to this question and I meant to applaud Anna for posing
>>> the question to Yjro. As it happens Yrjo gave an excellent answer to the
>>> question. He both explained how it has led to unfortunate misunderstandings
>>> of which he was well aware, and the original, perfectly good meaning that
>>> the term has.
>>>
>>> Obviously I am upset that what I intended as praise for Anna's action
>>> has been construed in this way. One lives, one learns. I am sorry. I hope
>>> now that xmca-ers who are interested in Yrjo's work will have a look at the
>>> video and maybe make a comment on it, and we will all have learnt.
>>>
>>> andy
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>> Hegel for Social Movements
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.haymarketbooks.org/books/1484-hegel-for-social-movements__;!!Mih3wA!RUhJ0gxm82ec4ykziv0nkRnS3EwZY1riRVSIhrI3mWyIxNWiREL64wyOkWb1XJDTITTRwg$>
>>> Home Page
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!RUhJ0gxm82ec4ykziv0nkRnS3EwZY1riRVSIhrI3mWyIxNWiREL64wyOkWb1XJAOjgOt3Q$>
>>> On 25/11/2020 4:06 am, ARTURO CORTEZ wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi, Andy.
>>>
>>> Thanks for bringing this video to the attention of xmca. As a
>>> co-designer and participant in the course, I would frame this differently.
>>> Anna asked a genuine question that she (and others) had and was eager to
>>> learn more about 4th Gen from an expert, Dr. Engeström, who was very
>>> responsive. The class was a very generative space and I don’t recall an
>>> adversarial or confrontational instance (and I’ve analyzed the videos)
>>> during Yrjo’s talk or others. As someone who was there, I thought it was
>>> important to share this context.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Arturo
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 5:26 PM Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> See the latest video clip on culturalpraxis.net
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net__;!!Mih3wA!SMBCK4NdVc3wTnUqfXOE8xrQsFqmqjSiktLA1a_H3E_DwVPtzlpA_rLZSzR7oOmvGi5Uyw$>
>>>> - a young researcher puts Yrjo on the spot with the question everyone has
>>>> been asking: What's this with the "fourth generation"?
>>>> Andy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Victoria posted: "
>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XijCqxkpHLU&feature=youtu.be__;!!Mih3wA!QYhQET5zqqHPV5a016e1Tsy1jf4TlpIrtAXlvnILolW8p8wMnXKH450k9xJWVNZcyO27og$  In this video
>>>> Professor Yrjö Engeström responds to Anna Zarkh's question on the reasons
>>>> to use the term generations to approach cultural-historical activity theory
>>>> (CHAT). The piece is"
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XijCqxkpHLU&feature=youtu.beInthisvideoProfessorYrj**AEngestr**AmrespondstoAnnaZarkh'squestiononthereasonstousethetermgenerationstoapproachcultural-historicalactivitytheory(CHAT).Thepieceis__;w7bDtg!!Mih3wA!W1RJpHlsXok4YNCf29WtYsjZIG0IOLfSBSgJN3hYfXPuhJ6MS6SS3QvdLBGeBuL9YfKbxA$>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> New post on *Cultural Praxis*
>>>>
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net/wordpress1/?author=7__;!!Mih3wA!W1RJpHlsXok4YNCf29WtYsjZIG0IOLfSBSgJN3hYfXPuhJ6MS6SS3QvdLBGeBuK2MU7hXw$> Why
>>>> generations?
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net/wordpress1/2020/11/23/why-generations/__;!!Mih3wA!W1RJpHlsXok4YNCf29WtYsjZIG0IOLfSBSgJN3hYfXPuhJ6MS6SS3QvdLBGeBuIMXJWMOQ$> by
>>>> Victoria
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net/wordpress1/?author=7__;!!Mih3wA!W1RJpHlsXok4YNCf29WtYsjZIG0IOLfSBSgJN3hYfXPuhJ6MS6SS3QvdLBGeBuK2MU7hXw$>
>>>>
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XijCqxkpHLU&feature=youtu.be__;!!Mih3wA!W1RJpHlsXok4YNCf29WtYsjZIG0IOLfSBSgJN3hYfXPuhJ6MS6SS3QvdLBGeBuJIjNycAA$>
>>>>
>>>> In this video Professor Yrjö Engeström responds to Anna Zarkh's
>>>> question on the reasons to use the term generations to approach
>>>> cultural-historical activity theory (CHAT). The piece is an excerpt from
>>>> the seminar "From CHAT to critical CHAT, organized by Professor Kris
>>>> Gutierrez and Edward Rivero at University of California Berkeley (Spring
>>>> 2020). The course was attended by roughly 50 scholars from various parts of
>>>> the US and Europe.
>>>>
>>>> Go to our Youtube Library
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7vDvqVINUOM831GgAGwGlA/playlists__;!!Mih3wA!W1RJpHlsXok4YNCf29WtYsjZIG0IOLfSBSgJN3hYfXPuhJ6MS6SS3QvdLBGeBuLngjzk5Q$> for
>>>> longer interviews and presentations by distinguished CHAT scholars and
>>>> educators.
>>>> *Victoria
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net/wordpress1/?author=7__;!!Mih3wA!W1RJpHlsXok4YNCf29WtYsjZIG0IOLfSBSgJN3hYfXPuhJ6MS6SS3QvdLBGeBuK2MU7hXw$>*
>>>> | November 23, 2020 at 6:16 pm | Categories: Video Series: Join the
>>>> discussion
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net/wordpress1/?taxonomy=category&term=video-series-join-the-discussion__;!!Mih3wA!W1RJpHlsXok4YNCf29WtYsjZIG0IOLfSBSgJN3hYfXPuhJ6MS6SS3QvdLBGeBuI9hZz0OQ$>
>>>> | URL: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net/wordpress1/?p=727__;!!Mih3wA!QYhQET5zqqHPV5a016e1Tsy1jf4TlpIrtAXlvnILolW8p8wMnXKH450k9xJWVNblmCEoIg$ 
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net/wordpress1/?p=727__;!!Mih3wA!W1RJpHlsXok4YNCf29WtYsjZIG0IOLfSBSgJN3hYfXPuhJ6MS6SS3QvdLBGeBuLQY-RWIw$>
>>>>
>>>> Comment
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net/wordpress1/2020/11/23/why-generations/*respond__;Iw!!Mih3wA!W1RJpHlsXok4YNCf29WtYsjZIG0IOLfSBSgJN3hYfXPuhJ6MS6SS3QvdLBGeBuJuYc3M8Q$>
>>>>    See all comments
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net/wordpress1/2020/11/23/why-generations/*comments__;Iw!!Mih3wA!W1RJpHlsXok4YNCf29WtYsjZIG0IOLfSBSgJN3hYfXPuhJ6MS6SS3QvdLBGeBuI3ZdXPxg$>
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>>>>
>>>>
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