[Xmca-l] Re: ...kind of like guarding Lenin's tomb

Fri May 29 09:55:43 PDT 2020

Hello all needle threaders,

The mention of competition and its connection to capitalism is poignant, Greg.

I have memories as a child loathing win-lose games, even if I won, I hated it. Because it meant making my peers feel bad that they lost.

I trust that there are likely a lot of kids who have feelings like this but there is no channel by which to reveal this because kids don't communicate well when they are young, because they may not even know themselves how they feel about something, much less to communicate it. This is why adult interactions is so valuable, for being able to discuss complexities like that (at least complex in the mind of the child).

Our culture rewards zero-sum games more than it should, but is there in existence a radar-like tool to detect other complicated feelings that come up about comparison with peers or other models that children are measured by as they develop?

One of the reasons I loved Sesame Street (and still do) is that there was a modeling for talking about difficult feelings through the muppets and their relationships with the real people (the adult actors) and with each other: Think Ernie and Bert.

The message that is so valuable is "You are OK as you are, no matter how different, no matter what you can or cannot do, you are still OK."

Which I would guess, if successful, would be internalized into:

"I am OK as I am, no matter how different, no matter what I can or cannot do, I am still OK."

When that message is possessed and deeply rooted, the individual child need not "have" confidence, if only because there is a distinction between "being" and "having."

"Having" can be taken away. "Being" is, well .... being!

Might someone could clue me in on the game Guarding Lenin's Tomb? I have never heard of this game.

Kind regards,

Annalisa
________________________________
From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 9:44 AM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: ...kind of like guarding Lenin's tomb

  [EXTERNAL]

Yes, to win as in to gain, which is about mastery.

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=win__;!!Mih3wA!X_Dula8oYqnKnKvgw_isKnagxnVh4way_po-s1_cPMwufYX6_Pfcwq5g48C4f3qomY1New$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=win__;!!Mih3wA!TvIqQYgJ5qPvUOa7EbV5KXcJmE-jbwNNru2fEGAQrxLjls5vdL9jGSJLBzhzZAImpjMWHA$>

And, incidentally,

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=confidence__;!!Mih3wA!X_Dula8oYqnKnKvgw_isKnagxnVh4way_po-s1_cPMwufYX6_Pfcwq5g48C4f3qJM1azxQ$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=confidence__;!!Mih3wA!TvIqQYgJ5qPvUOa7EbV5KXcJmE-jbwNNru2fEGAQrxLjls5vdL9jGSJLBzhzZAItvdbE3w$>

But as a life goal, that is something else beyond psychology. :)

Best,
Huw

On Fri, 29 May 2020 at 16:31, Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com<mailto:anthonymbarra@gmail.com>> wrote:
Yes.  And winning is generally more fun than losing -- all other things being equal.

What do you think of this quotation? I think it's interesting: "Imagine that the goal of life isn't to win the game. The goal of human life, in some sense, is to with the *set* of all possible games; in order to win the set of all possible games, you don't need to win any particular game. You have to play in a manner that ensures that you'll be invited to play more and more games."

The full context is here; it's a very quick read (a youth sports anecdote), like 90 seconds or so: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bit.ly/2XdQEFF__;!!Mih3wA!X_Dula8oYqnKnKvgw_isKnagxnVh4way_po-s1_cPMwufYX6_Pfcwq5g48C4f3oPbvWRqQ$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bit.ly/2XdQEFF__;!!Mih3wA!XzDIU8Xkoo3EdYtzN9jRUtNPmuN6pIXRX7nTJQPXKsuc_xKReATPNseCToxtzmO52yUEng$>

Thanks again, Huw.

Anthony

On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 11:10 AM Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com<mailto:huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Anthony,

If a child predicates their enjoyment on winning, then they will tend to avoid anything that they believe casts them in a bad light. They end up being over-confident about some activities and under-confident about others. Whereas what is sought is true confidence which comes from understanding the nature of understanding, and is best supported by enjoyment in doing. The enjoyment-in-winning is an external, frequently superficial, measure, the enjoyment-in-doing is one's own internal measure which carries its own sense and meaning.

Best,
Huw

On Fri, 29 May 2020 at 14:27, Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com<mailto:anthonymbarra@gmail.com>> wrote:
Thanks, Huw.

I have a six year old too. Why might a disinclination to be cast as a weaker performer be problematic? I am interested but also think I might be missing or misunderstanding something.

Thanks again,

Anthony

On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 5:48 PM Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com<mailto:huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>> wrote:
There's an impressive account by Smirnova of a preschool class coming to voluntarily take control of their quietude via a game of "who woke teddy?" in JREEP 52/4.

A challenge I have wth a near 6 year old is his emphasis upon wanting to win games and consequent shyness with activities that cast him as a weaker performer.

Best,
Huw

On Thu, 28 May 2020 at 18:52, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu<mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>> wrote:
Great question (s), Anthony!

Of the shiny top of my head I can identify another. This is from Vivian Paley.
It explicitly answers the question of "is this a once and for all change, or a bud that sprouted in just this one rare
circumstance."
Attached.
mike

On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 9:53 AM Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com<mailto:anthonymbarra@gmail.com>> wrote:
Dear educators of XMCA -

I think I have a good question this time!  To avoid redundancy, I searched the archives for answers and found an interesting thread from ten years ago.  But I still want to ask this here:

What kinds of "guarding Lenin's tomb" type activities have you thought of and/or used in order to support development?

In this great little 2-minute clip, Mike Cole discusses Manuilenko's tomb-guarding experiment: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/znnvpz__;!!Mih3wA!X_Dula8oYqnKnKvgw_isKnagxnVh4way_po-s1_cPMwufYX6_Pfcwq5g48C4f3oHpJ4d4Q$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/znnvpz__;!!Mih3wA!QnyDKMmlGuxChw2AzXV_HvcVQlE8oeBivNWuK6vHi8K43tjlH2D14vGQwFlSGpHZ8pMhQA$>

One can't help but try to think up other types of games (e.g., the Quiet Game on long car rides) that can function as cultural tools when the biological alone aren't cutting it.

On a side note, the short video brought a number of questions to mind for me, such as:
- where are 'the buds'?
- what are the qualitative reorganizations here?
- why are the buds (e.g, of volition) not yet present for the 3 year-olds, present for the 5 year-olds, and already flowered for the 8 year-olds? (ages are approximate, I know)
- how temporary is the 5 year-olds' improved volition? Does it wear off? It is now 'activated' for good?
- for the 8 year-olds, is volition fully developed for tasks such as standing still but still in the 'bud' stage for more demanding acts of will?

But those side questions are not the target of this post. Instead, my question of the day is (I think a fun one):  What kinds of "guarding Lenin's tomb" type activities have you thought of and/or used in order to support development?  (Any age or stage or setting will do)

Thank you,

Anthony

--

"How does newness come into the world?  How is it born?  Of what fusions, translations, conjoinings is it made?" Salman Rushdie

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