[Xmca-l] Re: "sociocultural psychology" ?

Thu May 14 18:10:18 PDT 2020

Chuck,

I appreciate that perspective; it makes sense and also reminds me of my
first introduction to Vygotsky and his interdisciplinary ambitions.

On a side note, you might enjoy this fact -- Your paper, "The Life of
Genre, the Life in the Classroom" was a huge influence on me earlier in my
career, and in fact I still use excerpts from it with my 8th-grade
students.  Recommended:
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.researchgate.net/publication/315112527_The_Life_of_Genre_the_Life_in_the_Classroom__;!!Mih3wA!R_kkzHI66qUaBrYe67FrPXQpDejfybCvkO5kVjJqIxtAp3D73udkrHId8ZRQoIsy_7fHeA$ 

So thanks for that.

Anthony

P.S. Here is one more 2-minute clip on Vygotsky and the advantages of
seeing through multiple windows:
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVyQvpvcyak&list=PLEK3JV1Ux_5W2ZfG2I-J7prbfDUK_dIlo&index=27&t=0s__;!!Mih3wA!R_kkzHI66qUaBrYe67FrPXQpDejfybCvkO5kVjJqIxtAp3D73udkrHId8ZRQoIv0_pL2Uw$ 

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 11:41 AM Charles Bazerman <
bazerman@education.ucsb.edu> wrote:

> Thank you Anthony for the interesting question and link. The way I see
> this issue is that Vygotskian work attempts to understand human activity
> multi-dimensionally (or even better holistically, trying to reunite what
> the emergence of various parochial disciplines have pulled apart for
> analysis of the separate dimensions).  The different terms that Veresov
> points out as contending are simply foregrounding those sets of components
> that are most salient to the particular analyst at that moment.  To those
> we might add other elements that Vygotsky was interested in such as
> consciousness and language and experience and mediation (and even economics
> and human knowledge and education lurk in the background, as well as human
> neurodiversity as well as materialities of the experienced world).  That is
> the wonder of Vygotsky, even though he may have developed some of the
> components more than others and he was acting nominally as a
> psychologist--yet his approach allows the integration of all these
> components.
>
> I therefore use different conjunctions of terms depending on what I am
> talking about, and I see activity as the overarching term--though this does
> not necessarily mean triangles all the time.  Rather activity is humans in
> motion, mobilizing multiple internal and external resources in situations.
>
> While I would like some stability in terms, right now our different
> concerns and issues leave salience mutable. And I am not yet comfortable in
> being terminally enlisted into another scholar's transient saliencies.
>
> BTW, I see another related, parallel attempt at reintegrating the social
> sciences in the pragmatist project which has at times been in communication
> with the activity theory project (see my paper "Practically Human").  This
> project also never settled on a coherent set of terms and stable concepts.
>
> Chuck
> ----
> די פאַרייניקטע שטאַטן איז אַ פאָלק פון ימאַגראַנץ
> الولايات المتحدة هي أمة من المهاجرين
> Los Estados Unidos es una nación de inmigrantes.
> The U.S. is a nation of immigrants.
> History will judge.
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bazerman.education.ucsb.edu/__;!!Mih3wA!R_kkzHI66qUaBrYe67FrPXQpDejfybCvkO5kVjJqIxtAp3D73udkrHId8ZRQoItKv0SeeA$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bazerman.education.ucsb.edu/__;!!Mih3wA!UhKa4f0rCaFbK573eepABBebep9QDP87JqQVUnd9uIfxETz6hRUnOR46PYaTgoSDGY6tLw$>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Charles_Bazerman__;!!Mih3wA!R_kkzHI66qUaBrYe67FrPXQpDejfybCvkO5kVjJqIxtAp3D73udkrHId8ZRQoIviFdDRiQ$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Charles_Bazerman__;!!Mih3wA!UhKa4f0rCaFbK573eepABBebep9QDP87JqQVUnd9uIfxETz6hRUnOR46PYaTgoSePA_SrQ$>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.isawr.org__;!!Mih3wA!R_kkzHI66qUaBrYe67FrPXQpDejfybCvkO5kVjJqIxtAp3D73udkrHId8ZRQoIuCOxRZ-Q$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.isawr.org__;!!Mih3wA!UhKa4f0rCaFbK573eepABBebep9QDP87JqQVUnd9uIfxETz6hRUnOR46PYaTgoRwwTwk4Q$>
>
>
> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 8:08 AM Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Interesting question (and follow-ups) here.  Thanks, Andy.
>>
>> While not 100% related, I wonder if this brief, 2-minute excerpt adds any
>> value: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT4uktowa-M__;!!Mih3wA!R_kkzHI66qUaBrYe67FrPXQpDejfybCvkO5kVjJqIxtAp3D73udkrHId8ZRQoItLScXhaA$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT4uktowa-M__;!!Mih3wA!WLyceskZQL4AGQL-pVuwd-RH-yfvzQvsIVerMU367Nw8BZjwVLHdZ94SZfyfIX_sfjyW7w$> "Pros
>> and Cons of (terminological) Diversity"
>>
>> As a non-expert, I can empathize with Nikolai's main point, but I'm not
>> so sure the cons outweigh the pros here.
>>
>> But what WOULD happen if a terminological consensus was formed -- could
>> Vygotsky's theory (and methodology), in fact, be definitively defined?  If
>> so, would the benefits of doing so outweigh the constraints?
>> I'm guessing this is an old conversation, and maybe even stale, but I'm
>> more outsider than insider and don't really know.
>>
>> Thank you for any insight.
>>
>> Anthony
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:19 AM Martin Packer <mpacker@cantab.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I had assumed you were looking for uses earlier than Jim Wertsch’s, Andy.
>>>
>>> Jim used the term in titles in 1989 too. And in the introduction to this
>>> book he, along with Pablo del Rio and Amelia Alvarez, explain why in their
>>> view it’s the best term:
>>>
>>> Wertsch, J. V., del Río, P., & Alvarez, A. (Eds.). (1995). *Sociocultural
>>> studies of mind.* Cambridge University Press.
>>>
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 12, 2020, at 11:13 PM, Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks to everyone for their help. It all went into the mix. Indeed, the
>>> term seems to have migrated from Spanish to English and the word
>>> "sociocultural" became popular in 1990, and it seems that Jim Wertsch is
>>> the fellow who triggered the explosion in "sociocultural psychology" with "Voices
>>> of the mind : a sociocultural approach to mediated action
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldcat.org/title/voices-of-the-mind-a-sociocultural-approach-to-mediated-action/oclc/797855062&referer=brief_results__;!!Mih3wA!WsWX2sD5ZfUnBEp3uLEVG7T0NliMnbPpuJl6VOoxtiFfKP5msJWjbZPFaCQ6jDWDMZtFSg$>"
>>> published by Harvard University Press in 1991.
>>>
>>> Although "sociocultural" seems to be most widely associated with
>>> "context dependence," Wertsch's reference to "mediated action" in the title
>>> of this book makes it clear that for him "context" referred to the signs
>>> and artefacts mediating action.
>>>
>>> Thanks again to all
>>>
>>> Andy
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>> Hegel for Social Movements
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!WsWX2sD5ZfUnBEp3uLEVG7T0NliMnbPpuJl6VOoxtiFfKP5msJWjbZPFaCQ6jDWcr53a1g$>
>>> Home Page
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!WsWX2sD5ZfUnBEp3uLEVG7T0NliMnbPpuJl6VOoxtiFfKP5msJWjbZPFaCQ6jDW3ivveVA$>
>>> On 13/05/2020 12:26 pm, David Kellogg wrote:
>>>
>>> Andy--
>>>
>>> Go to to the Google N-gram site itself.
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://books.google.com/ngrams__;!!Mih3wA!R_kkzHI66qUaBrYe67FrPXQpDejfybCvkO5kVjJqIxtAp3D73udkrHId8ZRQoIt1TETsSg$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://books.google.com/ngrams__;!!Mih3wA!Wt7qmS7sdvLo3anWG71NQFUJMvyFBqEy-mStjfAI_HEUpY8D8dQt5zHkl12Ld90MDkv2Mw$>
>>> Then do your own n-gram for "sociocultural psychology". If you set the
>>> years you'll get better granularity in the document search.
>>> On the bottom of the n-gram, there are some dates in blue--when you
>>> click on them, you should get a list of all the books used in the search.
>>>
>>> dk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> David Kellogg
>>> Sangmyung University
>>>
>>> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto.
>>> Outlines, Spring 2020
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!R_kkzHI66qUaBrYe67FrPXQpDejfybCvkO5kVjJqIxtAp3D73udkrHId8ZRQoIumWe3QTA$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!Wt7qmS7sdvLo3anWG71NQFUJMvyFBqEy-mStjfAI_HEUpY8D8dQt5zHkl12Ld92Vl0flPg$>
>>>
>>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: *L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological
>>> Works* *Volume One: Foundations of Pedology*"
>>>  https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!R_kkzHI66qUaBrYe67FrPXQpDejfybCvkO5kVjJqIxtAp3D73udkrHId8ZRQoIs1gr6RfQ$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!Wt7qmS7sdvLo3anWG71NQFUJMvyFBqEy-mStjfAI_HEUpY8D8dQt5zHkl12Ld92EeQenpA$>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 11:17 AM Martin Packer <mpacker@cantab.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The earliest use of the term ‘sociocultural’ I’ve been able to find in
>>>> English is this:
>>>>
>>>> A sociocultural psychology, by Rogelio Diaz-Guerrero
>>>>
>>>> In "Chicano psychology", 1977 - Academic Press
>>>>
>>>> Diaz-Guerrero was Mexican psychologists whose publications in Spanish
>>>> use the term ‘sociocultural’ frequently.
>>>>
>>>> The 2nd edition of Chicano Psychology is available in Google books,
>>>> and Diaz-Guerrero has a chapter in it, but titled The psychological study
>>>> of the Mexican.
>>>>
>>>> Martin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 12, 2020, at 8:47 PM, Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> That graph from Google shows that usage of the term took off in 1988.
>>>> How do we find out who wrote what in 1988?
>>>>
>>>> And Google also tell us that "Sociocultural theory grew from the work
>>>> of seminal psychologist Lev Vygotsky, who believed that parents,
>>>> caregivers, peers, and the culture at large were responsible for developing
>>>> higher-order functions. According to Vygotsky, learning has its basis in
>>>> interacting with other people," together with a reference. So that is nice.
>>>>
>>>> Andy
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>>> Hegel for Social Movements
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!XAtiPQXEOK3tz8RHCURqNz0psvv8Js3PxWmYUmHtZyY5j_IK-RqcFDVph7-NJ5i1rCBdtQ$>
>>>> Home Page
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!XAtiPQXEOK3tz8RHCURqNz0psvv8Js3PxWmYUmHtZyY5j_IK-RqcFDVph7-NJ5gDytDZfw$>
>>>> On 13/05/2020 11:30 am, David Kellogg wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Andy:
>>>>
>>>> I did a Google N-gram on it. You probably thought of doing this too,
>>>> but here's what I got.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://books.google.com/ngrams/interactive_chart?content=sociocultural*psychology&year_start=1800&year_end=2008&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1*3B*2Csociocultural*20psychology*3B*2Cc0__;KyUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!R_kkzHI66qUaBrYe67FrPXQpDejfybCvkO5kVjJqIxtAp3D73udkrHId8ZRQoItwMsyDTA$ 
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://books.google.com/ngrams/interactive_chart?content=sociocultural*psychology&year_start=1800&year_end=2008&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1*3B*2Csociocultural*20psychology*3B*2Cc0__;KyUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!T9TXqTQDd-8tvv5PfuxbPkx6Drdw0VlIrRNfcypZApQv2jnziHRkeAppccOVAZEmjetMCg$>"
>>>> width=900 height=500 marginwidth=0 marginheight=0 hspace=0 vspace=0
>>>> frameborder=0 scrolling=no
>>>>
>>>> So it all starts around 1960. At first I thought this probably referred
>>>> to the Hanfmann and Vakar "Thought and Language", but when I looked the
>>>> only books that used the term were sports psychology books. The big uptick
>>>> after 1992 is Vygotsky though.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, this is all English only. I am sure you will find very
>>>> different results in German, where "cultural historical psychology" is the
>>>> trend identified with Dilthey, Spranger, and neo-Kantianism generally.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David Kellogg
>>>> Sangmyung University
>>>>
>>>> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto.
>>>> Outlines, Spring 2020
>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!R_kkzHI66qUaBrYe67FrPXQpDejfybCvkO5kVjJqIxtAp3D73udkrHId8ZRQoIumWe3QTA$ 
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238/167607__;!!Mih3wA!T9TXqTQDd-8tvv5PfuxbPkx6Drdw0VlIrRNfcypZApQv2jnziHRkeAppccOVAZFjmWjmLg$>
>>>>
>>>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: *L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological
>>>> Works* *Volume One: Foundations of Pedology*"
>>>>  https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!R_kkzHI66qUaBrYe67FrPXQpDejfybCvkO5kVjJqIxtAp3D73udkrHId8ZRQoIs1gr6RfQ$ 
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!T9TXqTQDd-8tvv5PfuxbPkx6Drdw0VlIrRNfcypZApQv2jnziHRkeAppccOVAZGMmypSYw$>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 10:43 PM Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Can anyone tell me when and with whom the term "sociocultural
>>>>> psychology" originated?
>>>>>
>>>>> Andy
>>>>> --
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>>>> Hegel for Social Movements
>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!WBIr3_zzidcxaloVcp2qUX4U6WR3f7enQ2z2gvamcdo3Ihy82L4ZkR-PgfCDASisbYxsxw$>
>>>>> Home Page
>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!WBIr3_zzidcxaloVcp2qUX4U6WR3f7enQ2z2gvamcdo3Ihy82L4ZkR-PgfCDASiXKr5OJw$>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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