[Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found

[mike cole]

Yo Peg--

You remind me that while doing question-asking-reading for a while we
realized that we were
seeing real educational activity a la Davydov.  Davydov had recently
visited and had given a lecture
in which he laughingly declared, "you'll never see educational activity in
a school" (because all legitimated
goals are pre-scribed and pre-scripted, no goal formation). We celebrated
by sending VVD a telegram (only rapid
way to do it in Brezhnev era) declaring that he should return to UCSD so
that we could show him educational activity
in a school (omitting the fact that we were in an auditorium, after school
hours).

How fragile the memory of those empirical results have turn out to be!
Difficult to publish in general, and seldom cited.
"The mnemonic consequences of hegemonic memory"  :-))

mike

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 8:15 PM Peg Griffin, Ph.D. <Peg.Griffin@att.net>
wrote:

> Thanks for posting the field college edition of the newsletter, Mike.
>
> It is fun to thumb through it.
>
> I remember someone, I think it was Marge Martus, seeing all the activity
> in that hall we worked in and saying she didn’t see one child off task.
> Well, I said, if anyone was off task it would be like being in a rainstorm
> trying to dodge rain drops.
>
>
>
> We wanted to give away the teacher/experimenter privilege of giving the
> question and leaving only the response part for the child. If we couldn’t
> do that we would never see the children being under the control of the
> whole task. The child had to find/construct the task and the response; if
> it was public & open to collaboration with us we had a good chance of
> figuring out what both parts were and good reason to trust that the
> “responses” were valid, not false positives or false negatives.  Some of
> those little psyches were quite interesting task masters!  Unusually kind,
> too, often nagging some ones of us to help out other ones of us who were
> working hard to keep up with the kids.
>
>
>
> It was good to see the spirits of Ann and Joe (and the much maligned Janet
> video).
>
> Pupeg
>
>
>
> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:
> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] *On Behalf Of *mike cole
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 11, 2020 7:37 PM
> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found
>
>
>
> To me the important point in Peter's talk and paper is that the term
> blizaishi adopted by teachers, owing to the
>
> regimes of instruction that they are required to implement (constant
> testing, etc.) produces a form of "next step,"
>
> short-term, strategy that denudes the social situation of
> relevance/interest to the child.  LSV, he says, projected the developmental
> process into the longer-term process of development, say, the first 20
> years or so.
>
>
>
> Evidence that Denis Newman, Peg Griffin, and I collected about 30 years
> ago indicates that the teacher's with whom
>
> we worked were intensely concerned with the challenges that students would
> face in the coming academic year... We found them selectively focusing on
> skills in 4th grade that had no special relevance in 4th grade, but became
> the center of attention in the 5th when  particular skills became parts of
> more complex systems. But the short term focus was, as Peter suggests on
>
> the here and now and tomorrow test.
>
>
>
> An application of these ideas about seeking the short term as a part of
> the longer term can be found in what Peg Griffen and I called "Field
> College"  at  http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/jl82v4n3.PDF#page=1 . The
> organization of instruction in the model system we called "Question Asking
> Reading" at Field College can be in cole-cultural psychology 1996), chapter
> 9. (I do not have a copy of the chapter. If someone does, please post).
>
>
>
> Mescheryakov and his mentors converted traditional approaches to the
> education of the blind-deaf into a long term, immersive life world that
> made it possible to study development over the long term using principles
> of cultural-historical psychology. The entire, artificial, world was
> designed to be a zone of blizhayshi development.  The best and most
> accessible account of this work that I know of can be found here:
>
>
>
> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Mail/xmcamail.2010_04.dir/pdfaj3KKzidoJ.pdf
>
>
>
>  mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 8:18 AM Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Loved Peter's 2 min presentation on this! (thanks for doing those Anthony!)
>
>
>
> Also, has anyone written about ZoND (ZoNeD?) in terms of college students?
> I struggle with this daily as a teacher - trying to understand what the
> next stage of development is for college students and wondering to myself:
> What do my students actually NEED? (beyond the credential). Of course it
> isn't going to just be one thing. And it will surely be contested since, as
> Peter notes, the ZoND is responsive to the social and institutional
> contexts that come next. Nonetheless, it seems that there should be some
> broad strokes that we could sketch out in terms of Zone of Next Development
> for college students. Any pointers?
>
>
>
> -greg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 8:34 AM Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Forgive me if this is redundant.  Peter Smagorinsky has written
> interestingly about *Butterflies*, with an emphasis on ZND vs ZPD, in
> this short paper here:
>
> "Deconflating the ZPD and instructional scaffolding: Retranslating and
> reconceiving the zone of proximal development as the zone of next
> development"  http://www.petersmagorinsky.net/About/PDF/LCSI/LCSI_2018.pdf
>
>
>
> And if anyone is interested, here is a brief, 2-minute clip of Peter
> talking about the film and the ZND: "What is the Zone of Next Development?"
> http://tiny.cc/1qi5kz
>
>
>
> Thanks ~
>
> Anthony
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 6:15 AM JULIE WADDINGTON <julie.waddington@udg.edu>
> wrote:
>
> Yes, thank you *very* much for this Professor Cole. We'll be sure not to
> tell ANYONE :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *De:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu]
> en nom de Wagner Luiz Schmit [wagner.schmit@gmail.com]
> *Enviat el:* dimecres, 11 / març / 2020 11:05
> *Per a:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> *Tema:* [Xmca-l] Re: Butterfly found
>
> Thanks a lot Professor Cole!!!
>
>
>
> Wagner
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 9:19 PM mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>
> Dear Colleagues -
>
>       Deep in the the unruly and unstable bowels of the lchc website, too
> deep for google search to have penetrated it appears, is a copy of
> Butterflies in English. There is a rumor from the archivist,
>
> the ever-reliable Bruce Jones that is a copy of a 3/4" version from long
> ago, but that cannot be confirmed.
>
>      Below is the secret route. Be sure not to tell anyone.
>
> mike
>
>
>
> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Movies/Butterflies_of_Zagorsk.mp4
> The copy is not great, but it's there.  bj
>
>
>
> --
>
> Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy
>
> require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is
>
> nothing less than defined by critique T.Adorno
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other
> members of LCHC, visit
>
> lchc.ucsd.edu.  For a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit
> lchcautobio.ucsd.edu.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>
> Assistant Professor
>
> Department of Anthropology
>
> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>
> Brigham Young University
>
> Provo, UT 84602
>
> WEBSITE: https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson
> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy
>
> require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is
>
> nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other
> members of LCHC, visit
>
> lchc.ucsd.edu.  For archival materials and a narrative history of the
> research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu.
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
Critique is essential to all democracy. Not only does democracy
require the freedom to criticize and need critical impulses. Democracy is
nothing less than defined by critique. T.Adorno
---------------------------------------------------
For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members
of LCHC, visit
lchc.ucsd.edu.  For archival materials and a narrative history of the
research of LCHC, visit lchcautobio.ucsd.edu.
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