[Xmca-l] Re: Your views on a question.

[Harshad Dave]

Hi all,
This is with reference to my last message sent recently. I request you to
read "colonization" instead of "Commonwealth" that I used by mistake in
over-sight.
I regret the inconvenience.
Harshad Dave

On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 6:39 PM Harshad Dave <hhdave15@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Hi all there,
>
> This refers to the massage of Annalisa dtd.    *Jun 25, 2020, 3:33 AM.*
>
> I regret, it took a long time to respond to your above message. I read and
> studied it many times to plan the profile of my reply in the form of
> presenting my views. You took five different cultures hypothetically. The
> presentation elaborated then after concerning different situations touches
> (directly or indirectly) to so many aspects of discussions and debates. It
> is neither possible to express them here nor it is advisable to elaborate
> them here as it might look like a thesis in a discussion. If one tries to
> reply in short, it is feared it will cause more confusion rather than an
> understanding. However, I have decided to put my views that are linked with
> the subject matter that you have raised in your above message. I am sure
> you will find all answers in the same.
>
> Point 1
>
> I present my first observation from your initial information about A, B,
> C, D and E. The occupants of the societies A and E are the peoples who
> themselves and their ancestors must have passed through the various tuff
> struggles and challenges of life. They are the people who learned more from
> the history of mankind available to them than that of the people of other
> cultures (B, C and D). The natural abilities of people of A and E enjoy far
> advanced supplements of discoveries and inventions.
>
> Point 2
>
> The development (evolution of human society) of the human social system
> and its functioning violate many laws of nature prevailed in the wild life
> system. It was the reason our (human) society had to divorce with the wild
> life system because a *group living* manages its making living that is
> founded on a system that violates natural laws, while as the wild life
> system complies with all the natural laws. These two systems cannot exist
> under one roof of the wild life system and it resulted into slow departure
> with a polarization to separate the human social system from the wild life
> system.
>
> The further development of the social system from starting point to till
> date took a course through a process named *classical* *coordination**.
> The evolutionary development of human society was not free from the curb
> and control of nature’s hold. Each and every social development on the
> timeline through the process of *classical* *coordination* was
> accompanied by one or more *precondition/s*”. The men/women are supposed
> to comply with these *preconditions*. If men fail to comply, the wild
> life law will apply there. [* *the classical coordination* and
> *precondition/s* – for detail introduction please read in the attached
> file].
>
> As per my views and understanding, initially men were living in group
> habitations only using empirical discoveries and crude inventions, but it
> was not a human social system. A stage came when the productive system of
> the group habitation could be updated and still advanced with the help of
> fresh discoveries and inventions to ensure a lucrative yield of means and
> consumables for existence and comfortable living. However, it is possible
> only if the exchange process is adopted and introduced in the social
> productive system.
>
> I believe it was the time a group habitation became a human society when
> its productive system adopted the exchange process. Now, in 21st century,
> you will agree that the exchange process is the life line of existence of
> human society. This exchange process is influenced by and gets regulated by
> 20 +1 parameters. I request you to read the article on the following link
> to learn about these parameters. [Link:
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://armgpublishing.sumdu.edu.ua/journals/fmir/volume-2-issue-2/article-6/__;!!Mih3wA!RCfxqZqkdiM8Tpqia3d2ZctKjtiFUyLaa3HTkkS8UXwRrp3xfdM6PVNpR64qKfjDElE2yQ$ 
> ]
>
> The 21st parameter is the “capitalist” parameter and it is attached to
> the word materialistic wealth. It gets generated through exchange only with
> multiple breaches in the *preconditions* as explained in the above
> article. To whom you said Commonwealth is nothing but a well designed
> system that secures advantageous exchange ratios in favor/benefit of E (in
> case when E colonized B) and B sustained with disadvantage in the exchange
> ratio. Here E breaches the *preconditions* in the exchange process with
> B. [NB: Here I am completely out of those sentiments that teach us… B is
> exploited and it is inhuman etc. I neither favor nor criticize the act of E
> as I want to contemplate it impartially.]
>
> The design of colonization is nothing but to keep competitors away. I
> think… basic design of motive behind colonization and Monroe Doctrine does
> not find much difference. One should have vision and practice to read
> between the lines.
>
> Point 3
>
> “D is a culture that remains much the same for ten generations, and while
> ……….. more efficient agriculturally, but not that much has changed
> technologically.”
>
> If I take the last paragraph of your message as mentioned above, I would
> like to put my views as follow,
>
> A habitation or a human society that is not in any type of interaction
> with other human societies with any reasons, their development will
> progress at a rate of social evolution only. You mentioned D’s culture that
> is more or less uniform at the same time if you verify the population
> growth, it will also be slow and population strength of D will always float
> between two limits unless and until its social productive system does not
> get updated through the *classical coordination*. If you verify the death
> rate of children in the society of D, it will be surely higher than that of
> A and E. If you verify average age, A and E enjoy higher average age. You
> will find higher loss of young people in the society of D compared to that
> of A and E. Only because….. The supplements to the natural abilities of
> people of A and E based on discoveries and inventions are far more than
> that of the people of D.
>
> The colonization of B and C and their position then need an elaborative
> explanation and it is not possible to narrate it here as I believe there
> must be some space control in any discussion. If I try to explain my views
> on them in short, I fear it might cause misunderstanding rather than
> bringing any clarity.
>
> NB: I shall put my views on your message dtd. *Mon, Jun 29, 9:14 PM *within
> a couple of days.
>
> With true regards,
> Harshad Dave.
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 3:57 PM Simangele Mayisela <
> simangele.mayisela@wits.ac.za> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hi Annalisa and colleagues
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you for processing my earlier articulation in such an impeccable
>> manner. I see how your method of using definitions as a foundation for
>> conversations, specially sensitive conversations in a multicultural forum
>> such as this one. You have beautifully demonstrated that in your response
>> below and in some of your previous enlightening contributions.
>>
>>
>>
>> Your reference to the George Orwell’s 1984  is quite fitting in this
>> situation; when  a victim expresses that they are victimised, they are then
>> “gaslighted”, as there is something seriously wrong with their mentality –
>> the victim mentality. It is short of saying “do not think” that you are
>> victimised even if there is “victimisation”, or you “were” victimised.
>> Perhaps we can accept better with “survivors” but the conditions and the
>> context under which” survivors” continue to survive.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ok then, then the survivors develop a concept, “Critical Theory”  to
>> name, and shine light on the hidden aspects of “survivorhood”, where the
>> conditions for thinking about or “reflecting” surviving are determined and
>> controlled, even those who have power – “scientific or unscientific”.
>>
>>
>>
>> There is undeniable history of efforts and activities of survivors of
>> different forms oppressions and genocides,  where generations of survivors
>> have shown resilience and the ability to move on, but only to be met with
>> new and systematic ways of  psychological and economic oppression. Leaving
>> them with no option but to survive by different means at the disposal,
>> including becoming religious with the home for future redemption. Of more
>> interest to me are those who keep trying using   “enlightened” ways by
>> intellectually explaining to themselves as a collective and to the
>> oppressor with the hope to bring about change for their situation – the
>> “doing something about their situation.” Using the analogy of a monopoly
>> game Tameka Jones Young
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10158129729940856&id=522190855__;!!Mih3wA!RCfxqZqkdiM8Tpqia3d2ZctKjtiFUyLaa3HTkkS8UXwRrp3xfdM6PVNpR64qKfguMO_2wg$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10158129729940856&id=522190855__;!!Mih3wA!VX_uq7D0v43DAvM9nEC46ZStRpXjResRedVQUr9zhmuKYSRyZ34CmtUCYxxDViAr2G5ncg$>
>> (please watch if you a minute to spare) , has a way that highlights why
>> “victim mentality” is not an appropriate, or rather demeaning of those who
>> are working hard to be free, let alone to be at par with the oppressors’
>> “survivors” if I may say so. The video is in the context of the gruesome
>> protests after the murder of George Floyd, perhaps what is important for
>> this conversation is the content, the meaning of her articulations, though
>> her expressions are accompanied by very strong emotions, I found her
>> monopoly analogy worth my reflection.
>>
>>
>>
>> I must say I owe it to myself to try draw some links between Cultural
>> Historical Activity Theory, Critical Race Theory and Social Justice theory,
>> I admire scholars, some who maybe in this thread who have used these
>> theoretical lenses in their work in trying to understand mental development
>> it the global context. I think Cultural Historical Activity Theory maybe
>> one of the appropriate tools to explain that which concerns Lindsay; how
>> Critical theory is finding its way of infiltrating critical spaces in
>> communities, including academia, which he sees as nothing but “Grievance
>> Studies”  and threatening scientific thinking.
>>
>>
>>
>> It has been good partaking in these conversations. I think reflections
>> can continue to happen in private at a personal level and in smaller
>> groups.  What is important is; yes need to reflect on our thinking and our
>> learning. I myself have learned a lot from this thread, in conscious and
>> unconscious ways I transform as I read your contributions, to the point I
>>  at times pleasantly surprise myself quoting what was said in this thread.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> S’ma
>>
>> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *On Behalf Of *Annalisa Aguilar
>> *Sent:* Friday, 26 June 2020 22:37
>> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Your views on a question.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello S'ma and venerable others,
>>
>>
>>
>> I was intrigued by this notion of Critical Theory being posed as a
>> "grievance science," as if taking on a maudlin cape of "victim mentality"
>> around the shoulders, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> It seems something of a cop-out to reduce it to that. It is almost as
>> grievous as Holocaust deniers.
>>
>>
>>
>> Still, to consider it analytically, Critical Theory by design is intended
>> to uncover the ideologies by which certain social sciences have been taught
>> and promulgated. It's de-constructive, right? This stance might be seen as
>> nihilistic, but there has been some valuable work from stripping off the
>> veneer of power structures in order to analyze its underlying logic, which
>> in many cases has been arbitrary and reveals that privilege is usually not
>> earned through merit.
>>
>>
>>
>> When considering relations of power, it's easy (albeit insensitive) for
>> someone of privilege to name the powerless as "victims," but when this is
>> done, it is only in an objection when victims call themselves victims, as
>> if they have no right to do so.
>>
>>
>>
>> So who has the right to use this word "victim"?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I feel there is a strange aura about the word that is likened to the word
>> "masochistic" and it's *that baggage* I am wrangling with in my post here.
>>
>>
>>
>> Must there be prejudice cast upon those who are actual and legitimate
>> victims. There seems intertwined in the meaning of the word something
>> unquantifiable but that does result in "blaming the victim" dynamics, and
>> even more insidious, gaslighting, and these have results of its own harmful
>> effects. (Like when we say "to add insult to injury").
>>
>>
>>
>> Can no one use the word "victim" anymore?
>>
>>
>>
>> Frequently people use the word "survivor," which does have connotations
>> of resilience and fortitude against odds (of being victimized). But when we
>> consider the word "survivor" when used as the name of a reality game show
>> (in the early naughts). where people choose to put themselves in difficult
>> circumstances on deserted islands to overcome these circumstances by their
>> wits, to then be "voted off the island" by the other "survivors." Talk
>> about social Darwinism!
>>
>>
>>
>> I feel there is still something the word "survivor" leaves unspoken about
>> the representation of a person who has been a target of prejudice, crime,
>> neglect, or abuse, whether intentionally or not.
>>
>>
>>
>> Curious, I looked up the definitions of "victim" and found these:
>>
>>    1. a person who suffers from a destructive or injurious action or
>>    agency: a victim of an automobile accident.
>>    2. a person who is deceived or cheated, as by his or her own emotions
>>    or ignorance, by the dishonesty of others, or by some impersonal agency: a
>>    victim of misplaced confidence; the victim of a swindler; a victim of an
>>    optical illusion.
>>    3. a person or animal sacrificed or regarded as sacrificed: war
>>    victims.
>>    4. a living creature sacrificed in religious rites.
>>
>> When I look up synonyms for "victim" I find this:
>>
>> casualty, fatality, martyr, sufferer, butt, clown, dupe, fool, gambit,
>> gopher, gudgeon, gull, hireling, immolation, innocent, mark, patsy, pawn,
>> pigeon, prey, pushover, quarry, sacrifice, scapegoat, stooge, sucker,
>> underdog, wretch, babe in woods, easy make, easy mark, hunted, injured
>> party, sitting duck, sitting target, soft touch.
>>
>>
>>
>> I did the same for the term survivor:
>>
>>    1. a person or thing that survives.
>>    2. Law. the one of two or more designated persons, as joint tenants
>>    or others having a joint interest, who outlives the other or others.
>>    3. a person who continues to function or prosper in spite of
>>    opposition, hardship, or setbacks.
>>
>> Synoymns:
>>
>> balance, debris, leftovers, legacy, oddments, remainder, remnant,
>> remnants, residue, rest, scraps, surplus, trash, odds and ends, orts
>>
>> The third definition seems  the lest frequent usage, or is it the most
>> recent accepted meaning?
>>
>>
>>
>> It is odd to consider victims as designated parties of sacrifice; and
>> survivors to be considered mere leftovers.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is it that the life energy of victims are like easily accessible
>> batteries to be utilized for the benefit of those not sacrificed? Isn't
>> that what criminals do? To appropriate the property or energy of others for
>> their own unearned benefit and advancement?
>>
>>
>>
>> Is that fitness or crime?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> t the same time to be a survivor seems to be something left less whole.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> What then would one call an individual or group who has been overpowered
>> against their self-agency by another individual or group? Is there a word
>> without these undertowing currents of meaning?
>>
>>
>>
>> We can say oppressed, but no one likes to say "I have been oppressed." or
>> "I am oppressed," just as no one likes to say "I have been victimized," "I
>> am a victim," or "My society is victimized by your society," or "My
>> ancestors were enslaved by yours."
>>
>>
>>
>> And yet, these would be factual pronouncements, were legitimate
>> individuals (victims) of those actual experiences to describe themselves in
>> this fashion.
>>
>>
>>
>> Would it be no different than an individual saying, "I have been an
>> oppressor." or "I oppress." No one likes to say "I victimize others," "I am
>> a perpetrator," or "My society victimizes your society," or "My ancestors
>> enslaved yours."
>>
>>
>>
>> The problem in making these sorts of statements is that while factual and
>> descriptive, they can actually be twisted into being prescriptive. As if to
>> say, "I did this and I can do it again because that's who I am." or "This
>> happened to me and it can happen again because that's who I am."
>>
>>
>>
>> While there are people such as this Lindsay (I did not watch the video),
>> who can throw about "victimization" as if it were a shameful badge to wear,
>> I don't see anyone of that camp using the same disdain to describe those
>> who performed grave injustices against others, to perhaps utter a phrase
>> like "perpetrator of injustices", that might invoke that same shadow of
>> shame. To my estimation, whatever the words, it would be right and just
>> they should provide that  shadow of shame, given the injustices that
>> Critical Theory is attempting to understand, without further empowering
>> perpetrators and without further disempowering victims.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is the reason for this blindspot or lapse because a crime performed in
>> past cannot be adjusted to correct for the crime, that it somehow means
>> justice cannot be performed? In a sort of "shrugged shoulders - c'est la
>> vie" kind of attitude? That no one believes exhuming the "dead bodies" from
>> "unmarked graves" worth the unpleasantness of the task?
>>
>>
>>
>> Why is it easy to commit the crime, but so hard to bend the arc of
>> justice to meet the crime?
>>
>>
>>
>> In the days of the American Wild West, justice was doled out too quickly,
>> but now it seems it is too slowly.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is why I wonder how to consider science when we are talking about
>> power structures. What is scientific about justice/injustice? Power seems
>> unscientific. It is arbitrary. Or is it?
>>
>>
>>
>> Were we to describe the cause and effect of such power structures and
>> their internal reasoning, it would start to sound like Nazi propaganda, or
>> the promotion of eugenics.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm reminded of a Bill Moyers interview I saw many years ago, the name of
>> the guest I don't remember. I only recall he was a politico for the George
>> W Bush campaign, and the fellow claimed his favorite book was Orwell's
>> 1984, as if to say that it was an instruction booklet on how to create the
>> kind of society he wanted. The blatant honesty was breathtaking.
>>
>>
>>
>> Reading S'ma's post made me aware of how in the case of (all forms of)
>> oppression it's rare for the oppressor to say, "I have some self-reflection
>> to do to answer for the deeds of my ancestors, to make up for the
>> injustices suffered by your ancestors," or "My sense of privilege allowed
>> me to oppress you, and I don't feel right about that, so I will stop that
>> now. I see the errors of my ways."
>>
>>
>>
>> It feels there is no obligation for reconciliation because such folk
>> percieve the cement of history has been poured and dried. "It's in the
>> past, let's move on."
>>
>>
>>
>> There is something absurd about the tacit agreement to avoid self-naming,
>> and I'm trying to sort out how it might be not to be so absurd sounding.
>>
>> Has anyone a hand up to provide me on this reflection?
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not sure I'm articulating this very well, but that is my best
>> attempt. Forgive any flaws in my reasoning, and of course the typos there
>> above.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Annalisa
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> on behalf of Simangele Mayisela <simangele.mayisela@wits.ac.za>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 25, 2020 6:04 AM
>> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Your views on a question.
>>
>>
>>
>> *  [EXTERNAL]*
>>
>> Hi Andy and Alfredo
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you for responding to my communication, and for viewing  the video
>> I referred to in my previous email. Let me say that the connection between
>> the current conversation about “scientific” knowledge (in this case in
>> relation to  “levels” of mental development and “ideology”) and James
>> Lindsay’s argument on Critical Theory having no scientific basis (in the
>> video) is this:
>>
>>
>>
>> Lindsay and his colleagues believe that Critical Theory, I suppose with
>> its shoots like Critical Race Theory, Critical Race Feminist theory,
>>  Identity Theories, etc. do not have a scientific base but are a  movement
>> which they call “Grievance studies”,  that perpetuates “self-pity” and
>> “victim mentality”. They further went on to produce fake scientific study
>> “dog rape culture and feminism” known as “hoax science” as evidence of how
>> unscientific “grievance studies” are;  most of which are of course are
>> situated in the social sciences. This further exposed the paucity in the
>> system of peer reviews in scientific journals, which some believe are also
>> tainted by ideological predispositions – my fear is that this introduces
>> mistrust in the notion of review processes of scientific journals -  which
>> we have to be concerned about.
>>
>>
>>
>> The reason I brought up Lindsay’s argument to the picture is: while I am
>> not certain if I wholly agree with Lindsay’s argument on Critical Theories,
>> I  am however fascinated by the fact that they confirm the influence of
>> ideological position an individual or rather a “scientist” holds,  ( an
>> idea alluded to by some,  earlier in this thread). I believe, as much as we
>> aspire to be objective in our pursuit of scientific enquiry, the narratives
>> associated with our scientific knowledge(s) are likely to be tainted with
>> ideologically biases or historicity. The likes of Lindsay and Weinstein
>> bring to our attention the dangers of the exclusion of the masses in the
>> name of “scientific evidence” – who in this day of rapid technological
>> connection the collective is gradually become global rather than in
>> specific localities. Even those that deemed to have “primitive mental
>> functioning” or “unsophisticated” mental functioning, their unexpected
>> ability to infiltrate academia and other spaces with Critical Theory  like
>> a  “Trojan Horse”, that’s according to Bret Weinstein (
>> po.nl/2020/06/20/must-watch-joe-rogan-with-bret-weinstein-critical-theory-is-basically-a-trojan-horse/
>> ) seems to surprise us. I wonder though, if Critical Theorists' Trojan
>> Horse is scientific evidence of “self-pity”, “victim mentality”,
>> unsophisticated mental functioning, … (we can add other classifying
>> adjectives to describe all those who have not developed “scientific
>> tools”).
>>
>>
>>
>> My reference to Lindsay and Marxism, is related to some of the sources
>> that I have encountered earlier, clearly not on this YouTube video I
>> referred you to, but it is  within this line of debates about “scientific”
>> knowledge”.
>>
>>
>>
>> It seems to me that the association of  Paulo Freire’s  “Education for
>> the Oppressed” to "victim mentality" is kind of twisted and perhaps mistook
>> for “Education for the Depressed”, which is unfortunate, especially if we
>> take into consideration all the publications by Freire, like Education for
>> Liberation. Nevertheless, the Trojan Horse analogy for the Critical
>> Education is evidence of  the collectively formulated knowledge that is
>> generously shared, rendering the commodified "scientific"  knowledge
>> accessible to the privileged few, generously shared to all who needs to
>> advance the survival of humanity.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Simangele
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> simangele.mayisela@wits.ac.za
>>
>> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *On Behalf Of *Andy Blunden
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 24 June 2020 03:37
>> *To:* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Your views on a question.
>>
>>
>>
>> Casting collective efforts at self-determination as "victim mentality" or
>> "self pity" has long been a line of right-wing criticism of progressive
>> movements. Of all people, Paulo Freire is the last to be guilty of such a
>> sin though; his pedagogy is aimed specifically, like Myles Horton's, at
>> stimulating and equipping people from being victims to self-determination.
>> There is such a thing as a politics of pity though; it is called
>> philanthropy and charity.
>>
>> Andy
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Hegel for Social Movements
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!WCK45j6Y4AscTY1OVN1quxD0_VDKtR1Y9u5SYoUgfTIzhGpvyRCeU6XnFqBCRESHVrtCaw$>
>> Home Page
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!WCK45j6Y4AscTY1OVN1quxD0_VDKtR1Y9u5SYoUgfTIzhGpvyRCeU6XnFqBCREQ2rLbDLg$>
>>
>> On 24/06/2020 9:11 am, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote:
>>
>> thanks S’ma; among the many philosophy of science scholars who discuss
>> what rigorous scientific and scholarship are or can be, your choice—a video
>> critiquing critical theory in terms of what Lindsay refers to as “grievance
>> studies”–is  indeed surprising and remarkable in the context of this
>> conversation!
>>
>>
>>
>> In the video, which did not so much touch my small Marxist me (I am not
>> so well read so as to know how much of a Marxist I am!), Lindsay mentions
>> Paolo Freire’s Pedagogy of the Oppressed as an example of “critical social
>> justice” books, which he defines as “a codified way to indulge people into
>> self pity…”(min. 47:50). He complains that teachers are being educated with
>> Freire’s book, and that students are being taught with this critical (or,
>> as Lindsay’s says, this self-pity) attitude. Without going into whether
>> Lindsay’s critique holds or has any touch with what critical theory
>> scholars argue and do, I wonder, what would be, from Lindsay’s position, an
>> example of a good book for teachers, and why would that one be it?
>>
>>
>>
>> Alfredo
>>
>> *From: *<xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of Martin Packer
>> <mpacker@cantab.net> <mpacker@cantab.net>
>> *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Date: *Tuesday, 23 June 2020 at 23:54
>> *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: Your views on a question.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Simangele,
>>
>>
>>
>> How are you evaluating “level of mental functioning”? I would say that is
>> something with which psychology has had some difficulty.
>>
>>
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>>
>> *"I may say that whenever I meet Mrs. Seligman or Dr. Lowie or discuss
>> matters with Radcliffe-Brown or Kroeber, I become at once aware that my
>> partner does not understand anything in the matter, and I end usually with
>> the feeling that this also applies to myself” (Malinowski, 1930)*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 23, 2020, at 4:32 PM, Simangele Mayisela <
>> simangele.mayisela@wits.ac.za> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Further,  I still have more questions, however it does appear to me that
>> at the heart of the “hypothesis” of the scientific question are the
>> “levels” of mental development which are associated to “skin colour”, with
>> little consideration of the historical oppression that created the
>> “backwards” economies that keep the third of the global population is what
>> appears to be of low level of mental functioning. The question is more
>> about “what is the quality of the contents of what is embodies by the black
>> skin or a white skin?” with the aim to find evidence for the difference.
>>
>>
>>
>> Just to share, lately  have been viewing James Lindsay argument on what
>> is “scientific”, “rigorous scientific” and “scholarship”  vs  popular
>> narratives that are a propaganda based on Critical Theory, which are taking
>> over academy. Here is one his videos that you may want to view – if you are
>> Marxist at heart be warned that you may be challenged by Lindsay’s argument
>> on ideologies.
>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N55gFjg4yg__;!!Mih3wA!RCfxqZqkdiM8Tpqia3d2ZctKjtiFUyLaa3HTkkS8UXwRrp3xfdM6PVNpR64qKfgyYEuaCw$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N55gFjg4yg__;!!Mih3wA!V2LYI2I2g-qSP--eE84G38eGWBud9YwatVDWX1IvY27YgsR7kTdkqVGDNoLNCYNmswIv-Q$>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> S’ma
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Simangele Mayisela
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, 23 June 2020 22:10
>> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Subject:* RE: [Xmca-l] Re: Your views on a question.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Alfredo
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you for taking my attention of “level” which is crucial to
>> rendering the question “scientific”. But couple with level, which could be
>> quantifies as “high” and “low” or “superior” or “inferior” would account
>> for “difference”. As much as the question to be asked should be about the
>> “ideological basis” , I think the “hypothesis” is likely to be linked to
>> the “ideolody” as the hypothesis serves as springboard from which the
>> scientist works from, which informs where the person  will land  in terms
>> of the ideas.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nevertheless thank you for the clarification. I see what you mean ?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> S’ma
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *On Behalf Of *Alfredo Jornet Gil
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, 23 June 2020 20:51
>> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Your views on a question.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear S’ma,
>>
>>
>>
>> I am not sure anyone could provide that “scientific” basis without first
>> explaining what is meant by “level,” and most importantly, why and how such
>> explanation should be relevant to account for historical relations across
>> cultures/societies, specially relations of oppression. I understand your
>> curiosity, though, which is why I feel it is important to be very clear
>> about this issue and not let it unfold as if this was simply an adequate
>> scientific or philosophical research question. Given all that we know from
>> history and more precisely from political economy, the important discussion
>> is not about the scientific basis of that affirmation, but about its *
>> *ideological** basis: what sort of ideological inquiry is set forth by
>> posing that question in the context of this thread and of this moment in
>> history? There can be no question that there are and there were differences
>> between the socioeconomic formations of different cultures and that such
>> cultures were local, not global or international. So, the problem is not
>> finding the “scientific” basis but the how and why that question is being
>> raised. I hope this makes sense to all of you, does it?
>>
>>
>>
>> Alfredo
>>
>> *From: *<xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of Simangele
>> Mayisela <simangele.mayisela@wits.ac.za>
>> *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Date: *Tuesday, 23 June 2020 at 19:57
>> *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: Your views on a question.
>>
>>
>>
>> Friends!
>>
>>
>>
>> I am curious to read more about the scientific basis of the “the
>> difference in the level of *the mental socioeconomic formation* between
>> the two.”  Can colleagues be kind to provide scientific sources of this
>> difference.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> S’ma
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *On Behalf Of *White, Phillip
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, 23 June 2020 14:08
>> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Your views on a question.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is horribly troubling
>>
>> Racist eugenics
>>
>> Please stop
>>
>>
>>
>> Phillip
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 23, 2020, at 5:40 AM, Harshad Dave <hhdave15@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Dear Prof. David,
>>
>>
>>
>> Your message reads...
>>
>> "I think racist filth, devoid of any scientific understanding and without
>> a shred of scientific basis, should not be distributed anywhere. It
>> certainly does not belong on this list."
>>
>>
>>
>> I request you to go through the following points carefully. Perhaps, you
>> might catch the sound of my saying.
>>
>>
>>
>> Point 1
>>
>> If my views on the subject matter impress anyone that it is a
>> distribution of the racist filth, I think they (my views) are grasped with
>> a great misunderstanding.
>>
>>
>>
>> Whenever any unpleasant event happens (like the unfortunate death of
>> Floyd or else) between black/brown and white, the attitude and mindset of
>> racism in the event is discussed by all as if the color of the skin is
>> responsible for it….. as if it is founded on the color of the skin.
>>
>> Here I disagree and simply say…. Basically it is not the cause of color
>> of the skin but it (the cause) harbors in the difference in the level of *the
>> mental socioeconomic formation* between the two.
>>
>> Nowhere I ever said, no where I supported, no where I believed that *“it
>> is justified”*.
>>
>> Please, try to understand me….
>>
>> “Whether racism should be there OR it should not be there”
>>
>> OR
>>
>> “If it is justified OR not justified”
>>
>> is not the subject matter of my saying. I just say the cause of the said
>> “filth” does not lie in the color of the skin but it lies in the above
>> mentioned “Level difference”.
>>
>>
>>
>> Point 2
>>
>> You have reproduced a small paragraph from my doc file that I attached in
>> my previous message.
>>
>> If I am not mistaken to understand the essence of the saying in your
>> message, I think you pointed out…
>>
>>  “The views that I presented in the subject paragraph do not have *scientific
>> understanding* and *scientific basis*.”
>>
>> I agree with you that while writing my subject views I have never
>> searched if they have scientific support as above. I believe… *an
>> outcome of contemplation* and *a logical compliance* are the supports
>> and justifications of any *thinker* to present his views.
>>
>> If people (readers) accept the views no research paper is needed to
>> support them. When a thinker is asked to present scientific support for his
>> views I fear doors of philosophical works will get shut down. I have not
>> claimed the views are *rules* and *laws*. If readers do not agree with
>> them, the views automatically will become null and void.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Harshad Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 3:27 PM Mary van der Riet <VanDerRiet@ukzn.ac.za>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I agree
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Mary van der Riet (Phd), Associate Professor*
>>
>> *Discipline of Psychology, School of Applied Human Sciences, College of
>> Humanities, University of KwaZulu-Natal, South Africa*
>>
>> *email: vanderriet@ukzn.ac.za <vanderriet@ukzn.ac.za>
>>   tel: +27 33 260 6163*
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> on behalf of David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, 23 June 2020 02:32
>> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Your views on a question.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Mr. Dave:
>>
>>
>>
>> I think racist filth, devoid of any scientific understanding and without
>> a shred of scientific basis, should not be distributed anywhere. It
>> certainly does not belong on this list.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Who were the black people that Europeans brought with them? They were
>> living in primitive habitations in Africa with very primitive socio
>> economic formation. Their forefathers have never passed through the ups and
>> downs in last 3000 years comparable to the lessons European people learned
>> and sustained with and ever before that. The development of brain threads
>> of the black people and structure of their DNA are in compliance with the
>> pattern of life their forefathers passed through in Africa and its status
>> was in line with the socio economic formation in which they lived when they
>> were forcibly kidnapped as slaves by European people and their agents.
>> Generally we talk about apartheid but it is complex issue. We never give
>> consideration to this fact of difference in brain thread net work and
>> structure of DNA and consequential difficulties people of both the sides
>> face while they have to interact with each others."
>>
>>
>> David Kellogg
>>
>> Sangmyung University
>>
>>
>>
>> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto.
>>
>> Outlines, Spring 2020
>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!RCfxqZqkdiM8Tpqia3d2ZctKjtiFUyLaa3HTkkS8UXwRrp3xfdM6PVNpR64qKfjDeqqQRQ$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/protect-za.mimecast.com/s/4SZoCj2J6yfjqgqZSW5Gft?domain=urldefense.com__;!!Mih3wA!TSjxRZNvMM9E_Fxpr61FuZbtdmS2LqgbJ1zNHqtehEMf9FHvEvwI66x315TOM1TAHTd1Fg$>
>>
>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: *L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works* *Volume
>> One: Foundations of Pedology*"
>>
>>  https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!RCfxqZqkdiM8Tpqia3d2ZctKjtiFUyLaa3HTkkS8UXwRrp3xfdM6PVNpR64qKfhMUhnMIQ$ 
>>
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/protect-za.mimecast.com/s/_02ECk5MXzfnQgQoUVBQs_?domain=urldefense.com__;!!Mih3wA!TSjxRZNvMM9E_Fxpr61FuZbtdmS2LqgbJ1zNHqtehEMf9FHvEvwI66x315TOM1R8_2MsEg$>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 1:53 PM Harshad Dave <hhdave15@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> David—
>>
>> Your message addressed to Anthony impresses me that you have reached a
>> conclusion in haste and prematurely about my concepts/views. Perhaps it
>> might be due to weakness/error in the presentation of my views.  Here I put
>> three points to express myself.
>>
>> *Point 1:*
>>
>> When I contemplate on the issue of racism (discrimination between two
>> sets of people from different origin), I temporarily suspend my
>> feelings/sentiments founded on *philosophy of humanity* to work on the
>> issue impartially. I appeal to all friends to come out from that cocoon if
>> they want to have a transparent vision on the subject issue.
>>
>> If anyone believes that the anatomy of the subject issue might be
>> discovered by mounting one leg on the horse of our *sentiments and
>> emotions on humanitarian concepts* and second leg on the horse of *facts
>> of* *the prevailing social constitution of latest socio economic
>> formation, *I think he will never succeed in his task.
>>
>> *Point 2:*
>>
>> Here below, I attach one doc file.... title--- “Where the shoe pinches?”
>> I request you to read the points discussed there on this subject matter on
>> page 28 as the article is very long.
>>
>> [Go to page 28 and it starts – “It is not necessary that there should be
>> two separate nations or habitations with different levels of socio economic
>> formations and both………….”
>>
>> It ends at page no. 35 – “………. prejudice and partiality, but it is
>> mandatory that they must have all the abilities to secure their right of
>> enjoyment through their abilities only.”]
>>
>> The fact that is discussed in the above mentioned text cannot be
>> overlooked with our *justice and good conscience*.
>>
>> *Point 3:*
>>
>> As concluded by David,
>>
>> “……but it seems to me that Mr. Dave is trying to reinterpret events in
>> the USA using concepts……”
>>
>> I say he has misunderstood me. I do agree that the social constitution in
>> India is influenced by “cast culture” but there are people who might
>> think and analyze issues pertaining to social science and economics
>> remaining out of the cocoon of “cast culture”.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Harshad Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 4:26 AM David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Anthony--
>>
>>
>>
>> I think Annalisa knows more about this than I do, but it seems to me that
>> Mr. Dave is trying to reinterpret events in the USA using concepts that are
>> related to the ancient Hindu system of caste. Castes are not races (they
>> are even less tied to pigmentation than race), and they are certainly not
>> classes (they are reproduced by marriage and the family rather than by
>> relations of production): I suppose they are something like kinship groups
>> that are tied for historical as well as religious reasons to particular
>> professions. Because they are emphasized in religion (and more recently in
>> India's communal politics) they can certainly be said to be "socio-mental"
>> in quality. Somehow I don't think that this is what Andy has in mind when
>> he says that cultural artefacts bring the WHOLE of culture into
>> interpersonal interaction and suspend the distinction between social theory
>> and psychology!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> David Kellogg
>>
>> Sangmyung University
>>
>>
>>
>> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto.
>>
>> Outlines, Spring 2020
>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!RCfxqZqkdiM8Tpqia3d2ZctKjtiFUyLaa3HTkkS8UXwRrp3xfdM6PVNpR64qKfjDeqqQRQ$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/protect-za.mimecast.com/s/7lk_ClO6EAHoZLZ6sy71p6?domain=urldefense.com__;!!Mih3wA!TSjxRZNvMM9E_Fxpr61FuZbtdmS2LqgbJ1zNHqtehEMf9FHvEvwI66x315TOM1TbNjHOhg$>
>>
>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: *L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works* *Volume
>> One: Foundations of Pedology*"
>>
>>  https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!RCfxqZqkdiM8Tpqia3d2ZctKjtiFUyLaa3HTkkS8UXwRrp3xfdM6PVNpR64qKfhMUhnMIQ$ 
>>
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/protect-za.mimecast.com/s/hrCcCmwXNBT5nvnks9iGdT?domain=urldefense.com__;!!Mih3wA!TSjxRZNvMM9E_Fxpr61FuZbtdmS2LqgbJ1zNHqtehEMf9FHvEvwI66x315TOM1Rq1D29Ug$>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 8:24 PM Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about here, although my sense
>> is that it's wildly wrong, in various ways. I am confused but hope you have
>> a nice day, regardless.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anthony
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, June 21, 2020, Harshad Dave <hhdave15@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Atten.: Anthony Barra and David Kellog.
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> This is with reference to your replies to my message. I am thankful for
>> the same and regret for the delay in reply. I used the word “apartheid”
>> just in the sense of racism, complains of blacks/brown that they are
>> discriminated in social dealing by whites etc. David Kellog - Thanks for
>> the detail source of the word “apartheid”, however I request you to take
>> its meaning in the same sense as expressed above. The suggested/recommended
>> articles are viewed in a glancing by me; I recall I have read them (one or
>> more) on Academia web. You will agree their subject matter is different.
>> Anthony Barra – The article that was recommended by you is read by me and
>> it touches on various realities in the subject matter of our topic.
>>
>> I just put my views against the question I asked in my message dtd. 17
>> June 2020.
>>
>> There are two most probable answers.
>>
>> 1.      The turned out black European people will be the victim of
>> racism (discrimination) by the turned out white people from African origin.
>>
>> 2.      The situation remains the same and the world will see protests
>> and fights on an issue or against a complaining that the black European
>> people discriminate white people of African origin in the USA.
>>
>> I leave it to the readers to give their logical consideration to the one
>> out of the above two, but my opinion says the second answer will hold good,
>> but one should not forget it is just true on hypothetical presumption.
>>
>> It is a mistake to believe that * the attitude of discrimination* and *sickness
>> of racism *harbor in the color of the skin. In fact above
>> altitude/sickness is founded on the difference of *mental socio economic
>> formation status* of two men. There is a basic difference between the
>> two statuses of *mental socio economic formation *of black people of
>> African origin and that of white people of European origin. I believe that
>> a mass of people constituting a society with advanced socio economic
>> formation has fair chances to exploit the mass of people constituting a
>> society with backward socio economic formation. It is equally true for two
>> classes of peoples at different *mental socio economic formation status*
>> also. But, here (in the USA) both the classes of people are living in the
>> same society with one *constitution* and uniform *rule of laws*. It is
>> absurd to believe that the present socio economic formation of the society
>> of the USA (21st century) has prevailed and occupied equally and
>> uniformly by each and every citizen of the USA. One might find various
>> people in the present society of the USA with different levels of *mental
>> socio economic formation status*. It is really a complicated situation
>> when the society is throughout with the latest socio economic formation and
>> members of the society are with varying levels of *mental socio economic
>> formation status* in the same society. Let me present part of the
>> message of Abraham Lincoln before I finish this message.
>>
>> Fourth Debate: Charleston, Illinois – September 18, 1858.
>>
>> “*I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of
>> bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white
>> and black races, [applause]-that I am not nor ever have been in favor of
>> making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office,
>> nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this
>> that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which
>> I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of
>> social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while
>> they do remain together there must be the position of superior and
>> inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior
>> position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not
>> perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the
>> negro should be denied everything.*”
>>
>>
>>
>> Here it is between the lines that difference in the *mental socio
>> economic formation status* could be compensated to some extent, but for
>> equality people with backward *mental socio economic formation status*
>> will have to work hard to develop the same.
>>
>> I clarify, neither I am in favor of nor against the victims of the issue
>> of discrimination and racism as far as my contemplation on the subject
>> matter is to be carried out. But, I just want to explain where the real
>> cause harbors.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Harshad Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 6:01 PM David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Harshad:
>>
>>
>>
>> I am still a little stunned by the last post you wrote, with all the
>> references to predatory shopkeepers. It sounded like the stuff of a pogrom.
>> As we discussed in the "My Hometown Minneapolis" thread, the threats to
>> shopkeepers in Minneapolis often targeted South Asians, and had nothing to
>> do with the police (except that the police may have been involved and
>> certainly profitted from the looting politically).
>>
>>
>>
>> "Apartheid" is a term invented by the South African sociologist Verwoerd,
>> who studied with the Gestalists. Some Gestaltists, like Narziss Ach and
>> Felix Krueger, became Nazis; Verwoerd himself became, as you probably know,
>> prime minister of South Africa and brought in the system of apartheid which
>> Gandhi struggled against during his early years. The term used in my
>> hometown Minneapolis is not "apartheid" but segregation: it is
>> euphemistically referred to as "redlining" (by insurance companies) and
>> "racial covenants" but not as "apartheid".
>>
>>
>>
>> Segregation and Jim Crow in Minneapolis is not based on pigmentation.
>> Many "white" people are darker than blacks, and many black people are
>> lighter than whites, because of the centuries of rape and the enthusiasm of
>> slave owners for the practice of selling their own children. The last time
>> I visited the "housing project"near where I grew up it was full of Hmong
>> from Southeast Asia. Segregation in Minneapolis is above all a matter of
>> class.
>>
>>
>> David Kellogg
>>
>> Sangmyung University
>>
>>
>>
>> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto.
>>
>> Outlines, Spring 2020
>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!RCfxqZqkdiM8Tpqia3d2ZctKjtiFUyLaa3HTkkS8UXwRrp3xfdM6PVNpR64qKfjDeqqQRQ$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/protect-za.mimecast.com/s/upIcCnZJ6DfGonorTmKJVV?domain=urldefense.com__;!!Mih3wA!TSjxRZNvMM9E_Fxpr61FuZbtdmS2LqgbJ1zNHqtehEMf9FHvEvwI66x315TOM1QFm5D1Sg$>
>>
>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: *L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works* *Volume
>> One: Foundations of Pedology*"
>>
>>  https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!RCfxqZqkdiM8Tpqia3d2ZctKjtiFUyLaa3HTkkS8UXwRrp3xfdM6PVNpR64qKfhMUhnMIQ$ 
>>
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/protect-za.mimecast.com/s/LoX3CoYJXETXzkz6Sou7BK?domain=urldefense.com__;!!Mih3wA!TSjxRZNvMM9E_Fxpr61FuZbtdmS2LqgbJ1zNHqtehEMf9FHvEvwI66x315TOM1Teajel2w$>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 4:16 PM Harshad Dave <hhdave15@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear all there,
>>
>>
>>
>> We all are aware of the event of the death of George Floyd in the USA
>> under police custody. There are flows of opinions, comments and views on
>> the event with different aspects all over the world. There are debates and
>> discussions on the event on innumerable web sites, we find them in
>> newspapers and among the talks of people at private and public places. We
>> just do not talk about riots and other events happened under agony and out
>> burst of anger on the unfortunate death of Floyd, however, voice against
>> apartheid was the major cry behind them.
>>
>> Though there are various vital aspects of the event, *apartheid*
>> remained prime of them.
>>
>> I simply ask one question to my friends who read this post.
>>
>>
>>
>> Let us hypothetically presume, on one day fine morning, when people of
>> the USA awake, they find that skin color of all the blacks is changed to
>> perfectly white like european people and the skin color of all the
>> europeans changed to black like negro.
>>
>> I ask my friends, "What will be the status of *apartheid* in this
>> situation?"
>>
>>
>>
>> NB: I write one article on the ill fated event and its aspects. Your
>> views on the above question will help me to write my views with more
>> clarity in the article.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Harshad Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is
>> confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please
>> notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or
>> disseminate this communication without the permission of the University.
>> Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on
>> behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content
>> of this message may not be legally binding on the University and may
>> contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which are not
>> necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand,
>> Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and outsiders are
>> subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in writing to the
>> contrary.
>>
>>
>>
>> This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is
>> confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please
>> notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or
>> disseminate this communication without the permission of the University.
>> Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on
>> behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content
>> of this message may not be legally binding on the University and may
>> contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which are not
>> necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand,
>> Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and outsiders are
>> subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in writing to the
>> contrary.
>>
>>
>>
>> This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is
>> confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please
>> notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or
>> disseminate this communication without the permission of the University.
>> Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on
>> behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content
>> of this message may not be legally binding on the University and may
>> contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which are not
>> necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand,
>> Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and outsiders are
>> subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in writing to the
>> contrary.
>>
>>
>> This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is
>> confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please
>> notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or
>> disseminate this communication without the permission of the University.
>> Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into agreements on
>> behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised that the content
>> of this message may not be legally binding on the University and may
>> contain the personal views and opinions of the author, which are not
>> necessarily the views and opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand,
>> Johannesburg. All agreements between the University and outsiders are
>> subject to South African Law unless the University agrees in writing to the
>> contrary.
>>
>
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