[Xmca-l] Re: Philosophie des Geistes?

Fri Jul 24 19:48:51 PDT 2020

Why restrict ourselves to observing the boot, Andy? Why not study the
process of the boot's coming into being historically and in contemporary
activities that bring boots
into being? In psychology a focus on products not processes is a constant,
justified complaint of critical scholars I have been reading.
What am I missing?
mike

On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 2:05 AM Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:

> Collingwood is great. Hard to get hold of work I think.
>
> And yes, *Geist *is an activity. Many writers of our day agree with that.
>
> andy
> ------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> Hegel for Social Movements
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!QF2Dcu6tNVtc6QgFIIOvgcPzUedUPmYqhk6DpQSkkz2IHkcFeGKyJETmpyCEKAFo2KY2Qg$>
> Home Page
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> On 24/07/2020 6:28 pm, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote:
>
> Mind, Hegel and Collingwood
>
> The mind seems to be not so much that which thinks as the thinking itself;
> it is not an active thing so much  as an activity (Religion & Philosophy
> 1916 p.100) -  if you want to know the mind of a cobbler, then study the
> boots he has made
> ------------------------------
> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of Andy Blunden
> <andyb@marxists.org> <andyb@marxists.org>
> *Sent:* 24 July 2020 05:04
> *To:* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Philosophie des Geistes?
>
>
> There is nothing "crude" about Hegel's Philosophy of Spirit. It has almost
> innumerable grades of mind between the indeterminate "feeling" which might
> cause a new-born to cry without any kind of awareness, up to political
> action to resolve the social problem at the root of the "disturbance." All
> these are states of a whole body and its relation to its environment. Hegel
> does talk about "expulsion" where are person takes action - shouting,
> sobbing, .. - to relieve the feeling, a process which can be more or less
> rational. But he does not have a mental state over there and a body over
> there, or one expressing itself in the other. Probably my analogy of
> hand-waving was inappropriate. That's obviously not the same as your hair
> standing on end when you get a creepy feeling or the stomach ache which
> tells you it's dinner time.
>
> andy
> ------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> Hegel for Social Movements
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!SuCLv6fToTs8KM3N6g5Oqmfo51K9S2o9La2_xoAra5L1003TxFvIhV_9eW_a_u5bbHvFUA$>
> Home Page
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> On 24/07/2020 7:01 am, David Kellogg wrote:
>
> Well, it's not me turning it around, of course. The James-Lange theory is
> what it is: you perceive something, your viscera or vasomotor muscles
> respond, and the emotion is the feeling of that happening to you. Lange, at
> any rate, seems to be thinking of the male sexual response.
>
> I think that's why Dewey says that Hegel's anticipation of the theory is
> crude. Vygotsky wouldn't (and doesn't) agree that an emotion is
> "expressed". An emotion is not a mental state of affairs expressed in
> physiological changes in the viscera/vasomotor muscles or contrariwise a
> change in the visceral/vascular state of affairs expressed in a mental one.
> (For that very reason, I think that Vygotsky wouldn't agree with Andy's
> waving analogy....)
>
> Spinoza uses the term "affect" or "affection" instead. It means more or
> less what it sounds like: the way in which a body is affected by the
> environment and vice versa. This can either increase or decrease the
> potential for a body for activity. The problem is that in order to make
> this a theory of specifically human emotions, this activity has to include
> the "activity" of making meanings, and Spinoza can't seem to address THAT
> issue without slipping into psycho-physical parallelism. (Halliday can,
> though....)
> :
> David Kellogg
> Sangmyung University
>
> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto.
> Outlines, Spring 2020
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!TdBQQPR-bTnIx9Yw4iUDrSZjBM8SLdsDSSgJWTB1zVuHNiaB834h-O5LHdkFFcDtFHlD3Q$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!QLEoxL29F3RatvgkaIG1vsUhEgaWkdE-vCDs0vMv8gD5JVN33eCV8_ZTlPUZ5zPbYeeQHQ$>
> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: *L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works* *
> Volume One: Foundations of Pedology*"
>  https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!TdBQQPR-bTnIx9Yw4iUDrSZjBM8SLdsDSSgJWTB1zVuHNiaB834h-O5LHdkFFcCdbfIR3g$ 
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!QLEoxL29F3RatvgkaIG1vsUhEgaWkdE-vCDs0vMv8gD5JVN33eCV8_ZTlPUZ5zOCrzEKFA$>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 8:19 PM Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>
> No, don't turn it around. The point is that organs are subordinate parts
> of the whole organism. The emotion *is* the state of a whole organism, in
> particular, a mental state. Like a hand expresses a feeling when we wave to
> someone.
>
> andy
> ------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> Hegel for Social Movements
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!W1x0zBm8fkXksY2M64OKgpNL_TPx1e8eTQyWJEtxUBueZNW1leqHSuR9yBEWIW_pdhtxwg$>
> Home Page
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!W1x0zBm8fkXksY2M64OKgpNL_TPx1e8eTQyWJEtxUBueZNW1leqHSuR9yBEWIW9bL-5LGQ$>
> On 23/07/2020 8:55 pm, David Kellogg wrote:
>
> Thanks, Andy--this is it!
>
> "In physiology the viscera and the organs are treated merely as parts
> subservient to the animal organism; but they form at the same time a
> physical system for the expression of mental states, and in this way they
> get quite another interpretation."
>
> The only problem is the word "expression". In the James-Lange theory, the
> mental states are the expression of the viscera and the organs. But perhaps
> that's what Hegel really means here: the viscera and organs are a system
> that expresses a state which we interpret as an emotion.
>
> (I remember a dear friend of mine getting a messy divorce and remarking,
> when I worried that he was losing a lot of weight, that it wasn't his heart
> that was broken but his stomach....)
>
>
> David Kellogg
> Sangmyung University
>
> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto.
> Outlines, Spring 2020
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!TdBQQPR-bTnIx9Yw4iUDrSZjBM8SLdsDSSgJWTB1zVuHNiaB834h-O5LHdkFFcDtFHlD3Q$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!TttD-npmriYNiq_GkGHggjRPJwdnhAwRmpOFFclfTRlXC2fTkBviD-tAkaQPh-R8158beQ$>
> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: *L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works* *
> Volume One: Foundations of Pedology*"
>  https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!TdBQQPR-bTnIx9Yw4iUDrSZjBM8SLdsDSSgJWTB1zVuHNiaB834h-O5LHdkFFcCdbfIR3g$ 
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!TttD-npmriYNiq_GkGHggjRPJwdnhAwRmpOFFclfTRlXC2fTkBviD-tAkaQPh-Q7yWc-iw$>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 5:19 PM Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>
> If you're interested in s. 401, then you'll probably be interested in 402
> as well.
>
> One other possibility: The "official" way of citing Hegel nowadays is to
> cite the page no. in the authoritative version of *Hegel Werke*. The
> German word for "page" is *Seite*, so you would say "S. 401" of the *Enc*,
> This turns out also to be an interesting passage of the Subjective Spirit,
> on Self-consciousness, concerned with the infamous Master-Slave dialectic,
> though in a much reduced form, not like in the *Phenomenology of Spirit*.
>
> See p. 401 in the other attachment, ENZYKl3.PDF, in German. English
> translation is here:
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/suconsci.htm*SU428__;Iw!!Mih3wA!TdBQQPR-bTnIx9Yw4iUDrSZjBM8SLdsDSSgJWTB1zVuHNiaB834h-O5LHdkFFcAxSp2Jtw$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/suconsci.htm*SU428__;Iw!!Mih3wA!V5yS3WiqsE4SSOtcY1SJElXpnzzhFH035NnO1lZ49z3QJYH4kQO68Wccu2Y86C642xXiTQ$>
>
> Andy
> ------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> Hegel for Social Movements
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!V5yS3WiqsE4SSOtcY1SJElXpnzzhFH035NnO1lZ49z3QJYH4kQO68Wccu2Y86C4MltIy3g$>
> Home Page
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> On 23/07/2020 5:47 pm, Andy Blunden wrote:
>
> The Philosophy of Spirit is the Third Part of the Encyclopaedia, itself
> composed of three parts:
>
>    - Subjective Spirit, which is commonly taken as Psychology
>    - Objective Spirit, which is commonly taken as Social Theory, and
>    - Absolute Spirit, which covers Art, religion, Science and Philosophy.
>
> The Encyclopaedia has numbered paragraphs. These do vary between 2 or
> editions, but these will be limited probably by those translated into
> English,
>
> I would start with the 1930 version"
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/susoul.htm*SU401__;Iw!!Mih3wA!TdBQQPR-bTnIx9Yw4iUDrSZjBM8SLdsDSSgJWTB1zVuHNiaB834h-O5LHdkFFcB5In0ZgA$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/susoul.htm*SU401__;Iw!!Mih3wA!UcUFXSCRfRh-5aW0-7m25WJ_9mWTvjd1a6nOCEuF7RAbpt35sEPbx38XfvY3Rj0va8zujw$>
> - a very early stage in the development of mental life, or.
>
> The 1817 version has
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/sspirit.htm*SS399__;Iw!!Mih3wA!TdBQQPR-bTnIx9Yw4iUDrSZjBM8SLdsDSSgJWTB1zVuHNiaB834h-O5LHdkFFcAEuXVCZA$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/sspirit.htm*SS399__;Iw!!Mih3wA!UcUFXSCRfRh-5aW0-7m25WJ_9mWTvjd1a6nOCEuF7RAbpt35sEPbx38XfvY3Rj24gIDBAA$>
> - this version puts s. 401 at the beginning of a version of Objective
> Spirit.
> The 1830 one, above, has a long Note to it written by his students on the
> basis of Hegel's lectures which is a long discourse on the development of
> thinking from sensation. I am thinking this is what you mean. I will
> photocopy it and send it on.
>
> Andy
> ------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> Hegel for Social Movements
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!UcUFXSCRfRh-5aW0-7m25WJ_9mWTvjd1a6nOCEuF7RAbpt35sEPbx38XfvY3Rj2Rs_DLCQ$>
> Home Page
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> On 23/07/2020 5:09 pm, David Kellogg wrote:
>
> We are trying to turn Vygotsky's "Teaching on Emotion" into one of those
> cartoon books that are so popular here in Korea (e.g. the "Why?" series).
> It's not Vygotsky for dummies, but it will have a lot of pictures with
> questions and answers alongside Vygotsky's rather difficult text.
>
> We've got to figure out the text first. For example, what does John Dewey
> mean when he says:
>
> "On the historical side, it may be worth noting that a crude anticipation
> of James' theory is found in Hegel's Philosophie des Geistes, 401."?
>
> Did Hegel ever write a Philosophie des Geistes? If so, does the number
> refer to a page number or a section or what?
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brocku.ca/MeadProject/Dewey/Dewey_1895.html__;!!Mih3wA!TdBQQPR-bTnIx9Yw4iUDrSZjBM8SLdsDSSgJWTB1zVuHNiaB834h-O5LHdkFFcANixzkOQ$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brocku.ca/MeadProject/Dewey/Dewey_1895.html__;!!Mih3wA!RLGVUv48gomTR2KJ99jcR-ruYcur4TKLR3u-7WeR_HhShIfYJpHP0U7EwICkluTj4uvZOA$>
> David Kellogg
> Sangmyung University
>
> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto.
> Outlines, Spring 2020
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!TdBQQPR-bTnIx9Yw4iUDrSZjBM8SLdsDSSgJWTB1zVuHNiaB834h-O5LHdkFFcDtFHlD3Q$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!RLGVUv48gomTR2KJ99jcR-ruYcur4TKLR3u-7WeR_HhShIfYJpHP0U7EwICkluSzhBnr9w$>
> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: *L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works* *
> Volume One: Foundations of Pedology*"
>  https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!TdBQQPR-bTnIx9Yw4iUDrSZjBM8SLdsDSSgJWTB1zVuHNiaB834h-O5LHdkFFcCdbfIR3g$ 
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!RLGVUv48gomTR2KJ99jcR-ruYcur4TKLR3u-7WeR_HhShIfYJpHP0U7EwICkluRBlvE9VA$>
>
>

-- 

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