[Xmca-l] Re: Philosophie des Geistes?

Andy Blunden andyb@marxists.org
Thu Jul 23 22:04:31 PDT 2020


There is nothing "crude" about Hegel's Philosophy of Spirit. 
It has almost innumerable grades of mind between the 
indeterminate "feeling" which might cause a new-born to cry 
without any kind of awareness, up to political action to 
resolve the social problem at the root of the "disturbance." 
All these are states of a whole body and its relation to its 
environment. Hegel does talk about "expulsion" where are 
person takes action - shouting, sobbing, .. - to relieve the 
feeling, a process which can be more or less rational. But 
he does not have a mental state over there and a body over 
there, or one expressing itself in the other. Probably my 
analogy of hand-waving was inappropriate. That's obviously 
not the same as your hair standing on end when you get a 
creepy feeling or the stomach ache which tells you it's 
dinner time.

andy

------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
Hegel for Social Movements <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!SuCLv6fToTs8KM3N6g5Oqmfo51K9S2o9La2_xoAra5L1003TxFvIhV_9eW_a_u5bbHvFUA$ >
Home Page <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!SuCLv6fToTs8KM3N6g5Oqmfo51K9S2o9La2_xoAra5L1003TxFvIhV_9eW_a_u6pRGACdQ$ >
On 24/07/2020 7:01 am, David Kellogg wrote:
> Well, it's not me turning it around, of course. The 
> James-Lange theory is what it is: you perceive something, 
> your viscera or vasomotor muscles respond, and the emotion 
> is the feeling of that happening to you. Lange, at any 
> rate, seems to be thinking of the male sexual response.
>
> I think that's why Dewey says that Hegel's anticipation of 
> the theory is crude. Vygotsky wouldn't (and doesn't) agree 
> that an emotion is "expressed". An emotion is not a mental 
> state of affairs expressed in physiological changes in the 
> viscera/vasomotor muscles or contrariwise a change in the 
> visceral/vascular state of affairs expressed in a mental 
> one. (For that very reason, I think that Vygotsky wouldn't 
> agree with Andy's waving analogy....)
>
> Spinoza uses the term "affect" or "affection" instead. It 
> means more or less what it sounds like: the way in which a 
> body is affected by the environment and vice versa. This 
> can either increase or decrease the potential for a body 
> for activity. The problem is that in order to make this a 
> theory of specifically human emotions, this activity has 
> to include the "activity" of making meanings, and Spinoza 
> can't seem to address THAT issue without slipping into 
> psycho-physical parallelism. (Halliday can, though....)
> :
> David Kellogg
> Sangmyung University
>
> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a 
> manifesto.
> Outlines, Spring 2020
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!SuCLv6fToTs8KM3N6g5Oqmfo51K9S2o9La2_xoAra5L1003TxFvIhV_9eW_a_u6yF54jiw$  
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!QLEoxL29F3RatvgkaIG1vsUhEgaWkdE-vCDs0vMv8gD5JVN33eCV8_ZTlPUZ5zPbYeeQHQ$>
> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: /L.S. Vygotsky's 
> Pedological Works/ /Volume One: Foundations of Pedology/"
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!SuCLv6fToTs8KM3N6g5Oqmfo51K9S2o9La2_xoAra5L1003TxFvIhV_9eW_a_u5vc6I2uA$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!QLEoxL29F3RatvgkaIG1vsUhEgaWkdE-vCDs0vMv8gD5JVN33eCV8_ZTlPUZ5zOCrzEKFA$>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 8:19 PM Andy Blunden 
> <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>
>     No, don't turn it around. The point is that organs are
>     subordinate parts of the whole organism. The emotion
>     /is/ the state of a whole organism, in particular, a
>     mental state. Like a hand expresses a feeling when we
>     wave to someone.
>
>     andy
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------
>     *Andy Blunden*
>     Hegel for Social Movements
>     <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!W1x0zBm8fkXksY2M64OKgpNL_TPx1e8eTQyWJEtxUBueZNW1leqHSuR9yBEWIW_pdhtxwg$>
>     Home Page
>     <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!W1x0zBm8fkXksY2M64OKgpNL_TPx1e8eTQyWJEtxUBueZNW1leqHSuR9yBEWIW9bL-5LGQ$>
>
>     On 23/07/2020 8:55 pm, David Kellogg wrote:
>>     Thanks, Andy--this is it!
>>
>>     "In physiology the viscera and the organs are treated
>>     merely as parts subservient to the animal organism;
>>     but they form at the same time a physical system for
>>     the expression of mental states, and in this way they
>>     get quite another interpretation."
>>
>>     The only problem is the word "expression". In the
>>     James-Lange theory, the mental states are the
>>     expression of the viscera and the organs. But perhaps
>>     that's what Hegel really means here: the viscera and
>>     organs are a system that expresses a state which we
>>     interpret as an emotion.
>>
>>     (I remember a dear friend of mine getting a messy
>>     divorce and remarking, when I worried that he was
>>     losing a lot of weight, that it wasn't his heart that
>>     was broken but his stomach....)
>>
>>
>>     David Kellogg
>>     Sangmyung University
>>
>>     New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and
>>     a manifesto.
>>     Outlines, Spring 2020
>>     https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!SuCLv6fToTs8KM3N6g5Oqmfo51K9S2o9La2_xoAra5L1003TxFvIhV_9eW_a_u6yF54jiw$ 
>>     <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!TttD-npmriYNiq_GkGHggjRPJwdnhAwRmpOFFclfTRlXC2fTkBviD-tAkaQPh-R8158beQ$>
>>     New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: /L.S.
>>     Vygotsky's Pedological Works/ /Volume One:
>>     Foundations of Pedology/"
>>     https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!SuCLv6fToTs8KM3N6g5Oqmfo51K9S2o9La2_xoAra5L1003TxFvIhV_9eW_a_u5vc6I2uA$ 
>>     <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!TttD-npmriYNiq_GkGHggjRPJwdnhAwRmpOFFclfTRlXC2fTkBviD-tAkaQPh-Q7yWc-iw$>
>>
>>
>>     On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 5:19 PM Andy Blunden
>>     <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>
>>         If you're interested in s. 401, then you'll
>>         probably be interested in 402 as well.
>>
>>         One other possibility: The "official" way of
>>         citing Hegel nowadays is to cite the page no. in
>>         the authoritative version of /Hegel Werke/. The
>>         German word for "page" is /Seite/, so you would
>>         say "S. 401" of the /Enc/, This turns out also to
>>         be an interesting passage of the Subjective
>>         Spirit, on Self-consciousness, concerned with the
>>         infamous Master-Slave dialectic, though in a much
>>         reduced form, not like in the /Phenomenology of
>>         Spirit/.
>>
>>         See p. 401 in the other attachment, ENZYKl3.PDF,
>>         in German. English translation is here:
>>         https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/suconsci.htm*SU428__;Iw!!Mih3wA!SuCLv6fToTs8KM3N6g5Oqmfo51K9S2o9La2_xoAra5L1003TxFvIhV_9eW_a_u4aW3ZSXQ$ 
>>         <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/suconsci.htm*SU428__;Iw!!Mih3wA!V5yS3WiqsE4SSOtcY1SJElXpnzzhFH035NnO1lZ49z3QJYH4kQO68Wccu2Y86C642xXiTQ$>
>>
>>         Andy
>>
>>         ------------------------------------------------------------
>>         *Andy Blunden*
>>         Hegel for Social Movements
>>         <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!V5yS3WiqsE4SSOtcY1SJElXpnzzhFH035NnO1lZ49z3QJYH4kQO68Wccu2Y86C4MltIy3g$>
>>         Home Page
>>         <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!V5yS3WiqsE4SSOtcY1SJElXpnzzhFH035NnO1lZ49z3QJYH4kQO68Wccu2Y86C7AtYM8hA$>
>>
>>         On 23/07/2020 5:47 pm, Andy Blunden wrote:
>>>
>>>         The Philosophy of Spirit is the Third Part of
>>>         the Encyclopaedia, itself composed of three parts:
>>>
>>>           * Subjective Spirit, which is commonly taken
>>>             as Psychology
>>>           * Objective Spirit, which is commonly taken as
>>>             Social Theory, and
>>>           * Absolute Spirit, which covers Art, religion,
>>>             Science and Philosophy.
>>>
>>>         The Encyclopaedia has numbered paragraphs. These
>>>         do vary between 2 or  editions, but these will
>>>         be limited probably by those translated into
>>>         English,
>>>
>>>         I would start with the 1930 version"
>>>         https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/susoul.htm*SU401__;Iw!!Mih3wA!SuCLv6fToTs8KM3N6g5Oqmfo51K9S2o9La2_xoAra5L1003TxFvIhV_9eW_a_u5ZwbWgFw$ 
>>>         <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/susoul.htm*SU401__;Iw!!Mih3wA!UcUFXSCRfRh-5aW0-7m25WJ_9mWTvjd1a6nOCEuF7RAbpt35sEPbx38XfvY3Rj0va8zujw$>
>>>         - a very early stage in the development of
>>>         mental life, or.
>>>
>>>         The 1817 version has
>>>         https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/sspirit.htm*SS399__;Iw!!Mih3wA!SuCLv6fToTs8KM3N6g5Oqmfo51K9S2o9La2_xoAra5L1003TxFvIhV_9eW_a_u7A86_TiA$ 
>>>         <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/sspirit.htm*SS399__;Iw!!Mih3wA!UcUFXSCRfRh-5aW0-7m25WJ_9mWTvjd1a6nOCEuF7RAbpt35sEPbx38XfvY3Rj24gIDBAA$>
>>>         - this version puts s. 401 at the beginning of a
>>>         version of Objective Spirit.
>>>
>>>         The 1830 one, above, has a long Note to it
>>>         written by his students on the basis of Hegel's
>>>         lectures which is a long discourse on the
>>>         development of thinking from sensation. I am
>>>         thinking this is what you mean. I will photocopy
>>>         it and send it on.
>>>
>>>         Andy
>>>
>>>         ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>         *Andy Blunden*
>>>         Hegel for Social Movements
>>>         <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!UcUFXSCRfRh-5aW0-7m25WJ_9mWTvjd1a6nOCEuF7RAbpt35sEPbx38XfvY3Rj2Rs_DLCQ$>
>>>         Home Page
>>>         <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!UcUFXSCRfRh-5aW0-7m25WJ_9mWTvjd1a6nOCEuF7RAbpt35sEPbx38XfvY3Rj0L0JHIrA$>
>>>
>>>         On 23/07/2020 5:09 pm, David Kellogg wrote:
>>>>         We are trying to turn Vygotsky's "Teaching on
>>>>         Emotion" into one of those cartoon books that
>>>>         are so popular here in Korea (e.g. the "Why?"
>>>>         series). It's not Vygotsky for dummies, but it
>>>>         will have a lot of pictures with questions and
>>>>         answers alongside Vygotsky's rather difficult text.
>>>>
>>>>         We've got to figure out the text first. For
>>>>         example, what does John Dewey mean when he says:
>>>>
>>>>         "On the historical side, it may be worth noting
>>>>         that a crude anticipation of James' theory is
>>>>         found in Hegel's Philosophie des Geistes, 401."?
>>>>
>>>>         Did Hegel ever write a Philosophie des Geistes?
>>>>         If so, does the number refer to a page number
>>>>         or a section or what?
>>>>
>>>>         https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brocku.ca/MeadProject/Dewey/Dewey_1895.html__;!!Mih3wA!SuCLv6fToTs8KM3N6g5Oqmfo51K9S2o9La2_xoAra5L1003TxFvIhV_9eW_a_u7QXgIFZg$ 
>>>>         <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brocku.ca/MeadProject/Dewey/Dewey_1895.html__;!!Mih3wA!RLGVUv48gomTR2KJ99jcR-ruYcur4TKLR3u-7WeR_HhShIfYJpHP0U7EwICkluTj4uvZOA$>
>>>>
>>>>         David Kellogg
>>>>         Sangmyung University
>>>>
>>>>         New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A
>>>>         manual and a manifesto.
>>>>         Outlines, Spring 2020
>>>>         https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!SuCLv6fToTs8KM3N6g5Oqmfo51K9S2o9La2_xoAra5L1003TxFvIhV_9eW_a_u6yF54jiw$ 
>>>>         <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!RLGVUv48gomTR2KJ99jcR-ruYcur4TKLR3u-7WeR_HhShIfYJpHP0U7EwICkluSzhBnr9w$>
>>>>         New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: /L.S.
>>>>         Vygotsky's Pedological Works/ /Volume One:
>>>>         Foundations of Pedology/"
>>>>         https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!SuCLv6fToTs8KM3N6g5Oqmfo51K9S2o9La2_xoAra5L1003TxFvIhV_9eW_a_u5vc6I2uA$ 
>>>>         <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!RLGVUv48gomTR2KJ99jcR-ruYcur4TKLR3u-7WeR_HhShIfYJpHP0U7EwICkluRBlvE9VA$>
>>
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