[Xmca-l] Re: useful psychology?

[mike cole]

Exactly the same question Orwell posed in *1984*
As I recall, Winston needed gin in addition to torture to get rid of his
inability to not remember.

*Mike*

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 12:35 PM Martin Packer <mpacker@cantab.net> wrote:

> Tell me if I am inadvertently highjacking the thread here, but something
> that has puzzled me for some time is this. If someone becomes able to
> control their own behavior, is this necessarily emancipatory? A child can
> engage in self-control in order to do something completely new, something
> that transforms their own ecology and opens up new possibilities for
> themselves and other people. True. But equally, a child can engage in
> self-control in order to do precisely what their caregiver (or their
> government) wants and tells them to do. Are these both emancipatory? Are
> these both examples of ‘executive function’? Are they both occasions of the
> higher psychological functions (deliberate and conscious)?
>
> Puzzled...
>
> Martin
>
>
> On Jan 17, 2020, at 1:57 PM, Peter Feigenbaum <pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu>
> wrote:
>
> Michael and Andy,
>
> If you'll permit me to jump into this conversation, I can help answer
> Michael's questions. As a long-time researcher of private (egocentric)
> speech, I see Vygotsky's theoretical assertions about the movement inward
> of signs (or, more precisely, the externally existing social system of
> speech communication) during child development as standing in sharp
> contrast to the nativist assertions that verbal thinking is an inborn
> biological system. But more pertinent to your discussion, by placing the
> source of human verbal thinking in the social sphere rather than the
> biological sphere, Vygotsky also embraces the primary function of signs as
> a social means for controlling the consciousness of others. What happens
> during the development of private speech is that this artificially created
> means of social control of others passes to the child as part of the
> process of acquiring the system of speech communication. As a derivative of
> the primary function of signs, inner speech becomes a child's means of
> controlling his or her own consciousness. Possessing control over one's own
> consciousness is nothing less than emancipatory. Neat trick, eh?
>
> Sorry to intervene!  Carry on.
>
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 11:57 AM Glassman, Michael <glassman.13@osu.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> This is interesting Andy. What strikes me as I read it is the sentence
>> “Its theoretical goal is the prediction and control of behavior.” These
>> days I see Vygotsky as advocating for thinking as a tool that can predict
>> and control the ecology. Of course Watson is saying (like most
>> behaviorists) you can’t go inside the head. Is Vygotsky saying that
>> internalized tools are the same as external tools? Is that why he
>> emphasizes the initial external to internal migrations of tools we use to
>> control the ecology around us? Was he trying to split this differences, you
>> can go inside the head if you accept that was is inside the head is a
>> consequence of what is outside the head? For me it puts the whole idea of
>> contextualism in a different light.
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *On Behalf Of *Andy Blunden
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 16, 2020 6:06 PM
>> *To:* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: useful psychology?
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is what J B Watson had to say about Behaviourism:
>>
>> “Psychology as the behaviorist views it is a purely objective
>> experimental branch of natural science. Its theoretical goal is the
>> prediction and control of behavior. Introspection forms no essential part
>> of its methods, nor is the scientific value of its data dependent upon the
>> readiness with which they lend themselves to interpretation in terms of
>> consciousness. The behaviorist, in his efforts to get a unitary scheme of
>> animal response, recognizes no dividing line between man and brute”
>> (‘Psychology as the Behaviorist Views it’, 1913)
>>
>> Andy
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Hegel for Social Movements
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!KGKeukY!kAhm2-MhmeEb01UGseDSvAZrvZnJtObSQddV0XOYmjieDbMEOEMJQ1-jaTJz_kABKaH3hjUn$>
>> Home Page
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!KGKeukY!kAhm2-MhmeEb01UGseDSvAZrvZnJtObSQddV0XOYmjieDbMEOEMJQ1-jaTJz_kABKUW5Le1w$>
>>
>> On 17/01/2020 3:13 am, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote:
>>
>> What you write makes sense to me, Michael. I meant behaviorism as a
>> science of control from a pedagogy perspective. I use to raise the question
>> “what type of pedagogy do arrive at when you take the S-R scheme (and
>> conditioning) as your main explanatory scheme?” If you raise the same
>> question from a sociocultural perspective, the answer is quite different,
>> and allows for issues of freedom in a whole new light.
>>
>>
>>
>> In terms of Vygotsky’s positions, I think you render a valid reading.
>>
>>
>>
>> Although I think that today’s school curricula in most countries are
>> quite explicit on the importance of the “adaptable thinking skills” that
>> you refer to, rather than on educating for jobs (although I can see that is
>> still the underlying assumption). You can read about those skills in the
>> so-called XXIst century skills, very extended in recent educational reforms
>> (including critical thinking skills, creativity, collaborative skills,
>> digital skills…). I am afraid, though, that the ecosocial crises that we
>> are facing are very quickly and patently showing how narrow our
>> understandings of the sort of skills needed to survive in the XXIst century
>> are. I think that what the climate crisis is showing us is that we need to
>> connect those notions of thinking with the practical socio-economical
>> organization of power and of the relations of humans with nature. I don’t
>> remember now where I read that a scientist had been including spikes of
>> civil activism, disobedience, and social disrest in his/her climate
>> prediction computer models, and was showing that these were the only
>> variables that may have a largest, quickest effect in achieving the gas
>> emission reductions needed (if you can reduce the solution to reducing gas
>> emissions…). I think events today are re-writing the way “progressing
>> towards a modern world” made concious thinking more relevant… But this is a
>> digression, sorry!
>>
>>
>>
>> Alfredo
>>
>> *From: *<xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of "Glassman, Michael"
>> <glassman.13@osu.edu> <glassman.13@osu.edu>
>> *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Date: *Thursday, 16 January 2020 at 15:49
>> *To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: useful psychology?
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Alfredo and Andy,
>>
>>
>>
>> I am not sure I agree with this characterization of behaviorism.
>> Especially at the time he was writing behaviorism was for the most part I
>> think focusing on the behaviors of individuals rather than going inside the
>> head to understand what individuals did. It cast quite a wide net, from
>> Thorndike to Mead. But I don’t think at this point that Vygotsky had a dog
>> in a cognitive/behaviorist fight (maybe I am wrong). I sort of see Vygotsky
>> at this point as not so much discussing control of individuals by those
>> outside them (at least not directly) but the ways individuals are able to
>> control the ecologies around them. He sees this occurring in two possible
>> ways, being able to use internalized tools in order to directly control the
>> ecology, and being able to control their own thinking so that they can
>> actually play (not the right word) with these internalized symbols before
>> applying them. He has not difficulty with the former, and all that is
>> really necessary is to be taught different applications for limited
>> situations. But as we progressed to a modern world the ability to lead a
>> satisfactory life from a small set of applications you might say becomes
>> more and more difficult. Humans developed more abstract thinking,
>> controlling their thoughts to deal with a quickly changing and heterogenous
>> ecology, but this demanded conscious effort on the part of social
>> interlocutors (formal teaching). The difficulty he raises in the socialist
>> alteration of man is that this type of conscious effort was limited to only
>> a small population that then used their more adaptable thinking skills (I
>> am hesitant to say advanced) to manipulate (to differentiate from control)
>> those who were on the lower rungs of society. I mean we continue to do this
>> today when we argue to educate students for specific jobs but do not offer
>> broader education in thinking (there is nothing wrong in training in skills
>> such as mechanics and plumbing, but unless we teach people to manipulate
>> their thinking about those skills they will never really have control of
>> what they do in a complex society. I don’t think that is what Vygotsky was
>> writing about in Crisis, but it does set up a road map for where he wants
>> to go, which I actually think you can see in part even in his dissertation
>> on Hamlet.
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> *On Behalf Of *Alfredo Jornet Gil
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 16, 2020 7:34 AM
>> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: useful psychology?
>>
>>
>>
>> Andy, all,
>>
>>
>>
>> Behaviorism as the science of controlling people, as the opposite of an
>> emancipatory science, is exactly how I teach it in my learning theory
>> courses. I too find the most useful reading of Vygotsky’s attempts as
>> aiming at an emancipatory science, although clearly the instrumental bend
>> in some of the formulations gets in the way, including the terminology of
>> “control” that also characterized, for example, Dewey’s ideas on inquiry.
>> “The artificial control of behavior” could for example be as well
>> formulated as the object-oriented activity of a social movement, which
>> precisely aims to gain “control” over conditions for development; only that
>> “control” might be a quite misleading way of posing it…
>>
>>
>>
>> Alfredo
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *<xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of Andy Blunden <
>> andyb@marxists.org>
>> *Reply to: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Date: *Thursday, 16 January 2020 at 12:52
>> *To: *"xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: useful psychology?
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael, I simply take Vygotsky at his (translated) word. He wants "a
>> scientific theory which would lead to the subordination and mastery of the
>> mind, to the artificial control of behaviour" and whether he likes
>> Munsterberg or personality testing for jobs is, to me, irrelevant.
>>
>> Now there *is *an ambiguity in Vygotsky's claim. Behaviourism, for
>> example, I would define as the science of controlling people, and as such
>> is the opposite of an emancipatory science. What Vygotsky is mainly
>> interested in, on the other hand, is giving to people the capacity to
>> control *their own* mind. But this is not clear from the above, and
>> maybe Vygotsky himself wasn't clear. His writing on "socialist man" and the
>> business with lie detectors suggest that there were some blind spots there.
>>
>> Anyway, I was only interested in using the quote for my own purposes in
>> contrasting the academic literature on "social Movement Studies" and that
>> genre of social movement literature written by and for activist, which is
>> usually narrative or autobiographical in style, and in the above sense
>> "technic" rather than "epistemology."
>>
>> Andy
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Hegel for Social Movements
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!KGKeukY!mrT6LtMASo6iMbjfKmsIkMmzZQzGLVGZkfw0x1WC8SwszUCXq-0wxCJX5hQJe8BHX5U$>
>> Home Page
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!KGKeukY!mrT6LtMASo6iMbjfKmsIkMmzZQzGLVGZkfw0x1WC8SwszUCXq-0wxCJX5hQJhs-ll44$>
>>
>> On 16/01/2020 6:42 am, Glassman, Michael wrote:
>>
>> I don’t know, the sense I get is that he was really criticizing
>> Musterberg, not embracing him, at least from what I read in Crisis.
>> Vygotsky seems to believe we should be wary of this idea of a practical
>> psychology that can use empirical means to look predict human behavior. One
>> hint I get from the piece is his mention of using practical psychology to
>> determine whether people should be tram drivers. To me it sounds like he
>> was arguing also against the rising use of intelligence tests as a
>> psychological tool. James brought over Musterberg in part I think to
>> explore the idea of empirical psychology and Musterberg it seems wound up
>> merging empirical and practical in ways that Vygotsky thought might be
>> detrimental, rightfully suggesting it would send psychology towards the
>> types of practical models of the physical sciences where it did not belong,
>> something that I think has plagued the field since. At least from my
>> reading of this piece is that Vygotsky also found it confusing that
>> Musterberg by following James was also grabbing hold of an idealist vision
>> of psychology, that people behave in certain ways because they were human.
>> Vygotsky seemed to think that there was no way to reconcile this. At this
>> moment I see this as sort of a precursor of where Vygotsky wanted to go,
>> finding a way to merge the idealist vision with a material approach but not
>> falling into a trap in either direction. He did not want to be Wundt and he
>> did not want to be Musterberg, he definitely wanted nothing to do with the
>> intelligence testers who combined “empirical” and practical psychology for
>> ideological reasons (just recently heard about Thomas Teo’s idea of
>> epistemic violence. I think that might fit in here).
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> *On Behalf Of *Jussi Silvonen
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 15, 2020 1:15 PM
>> *To:* mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> <mcole@ucsd.edu>; eXtended Mind,
>> Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: useful psychology?
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>>
>>
>> take a look at Internet Archive (archive.org), you can find PDF files of
>> most of Münsterberg's books there. It is obvious, that Müsterberg had  a
>> great influence on LSV, at least in his theory's instrumental phase.
>>
>>
>>
>> JusSi
>>
>> ----------------
>> Jussi Silvonen
>> Dosentti
>> Itä-Suomen yliopisto, Joensuun kampus
>> Kasvatustieteiden ja psykologian osasto
>> PL 111 (Metria)
>> 80101 Joensuu
>> ------------------
>> https://wiki.uef.fi/display/~jsilvone@uef.fi/Home
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/wiki.uef.fi/display/*jsilvone@uef.fi/Home__;fg!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIe9sFnfP$>
>> https://uef.academia.edu/JussiSilvonen
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/uef.academia.edu/JussiSilvonen__;!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIREamwTv$>
>> http://www.mendeley.com/profiles/jussi-silvonen/
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.mendeley.com/profiles/jussi-silvonen/__;!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIRbRK5sy$>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *Lähettäjä:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <
>> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> käyttäjän mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu>
>> puolesta
>> *Lähetetty:* keskiviikko 15. tammikuuta 2020 19.56
>> *Vastaanottaja:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <
>> xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Aihe:* [Xmca-l] Re: useful psychology?
>>
>>
>>
>> In my view, Munsterberg was no fool and was deeply immersed in the
>> problem of the "two psychologies" that LSV sought to supercede. For a quick
>> take on "psychotechnics" in work, check his book out on google and search
>> the term. For example,
>>
>>
>>
>> Psychotechnics is really a technical science related to a causal
>> [experimental-mc] psychology as engineering is related to physics.
>> Psychotechnics necessarily refers to the future while the psychohistorical
>> sciences refer to the past. (Munsterg, 1915, p.354)
>>
>>
>>
>> It would be interesting to stage a discussion bertween Munsterberg and
>> LSV.  Which one would have more to say for his accomplishments view from,
>> say, 2020?
>>
>>
>>
>> And if someone has a pdf of the book, please sing out!
>>
>> mike
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 8:25 AM Glassman, Michael <glassman.13@osu.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I don’t know, I read it that he was criticizing Munsterberg with his
>> discussion of psychotechnics, which I guess was the title of Munsterberg’s
>> last book. To meet it reads like Vygotsky was thinking Munsterberg was
>> falling into a dangerous materialist trap. Maybe that’s what you are saying
>> Andy.
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *On Behalf Of *Andy Blunden
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 15, 2020 2:39 AM
>> *To:* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: useful psychology?
>>
>>
>>
>> This is what I was looking for:
>>
>> https://www.marxists.org/archive/vygotsky/works/crisis/psycri12.htm#p1207
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.marxists.org*2Farchive*2Fvygotsky*2Fworks*2Fcrisis*2Fpsycri12.htm*p1207__*3BIw!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBkzm3Ep0s*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412462637&sdata=OBOvR6IPfkMeN4eKIcrZXz5aDBjX1t5LB6LokEBXrDg*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlKiUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIXDWyWWT$>
>>
>> It was the exclusion of "psychotechnics" from the fundamental problems of
>> psychology which he objected to. On the contrary, the philosophy of
>> practice provided all the solutions to these problems. "The goal of such
>> a psychology is not Shakespeare in concepts, as it was for Dilthey, but *in
>> one word – psychotechnics*, i.e., a scientific theory which would lead
>> to the subordination and mastery of the mind, to the artificial control of
>> behaviour."
>>
>> Thanks all.
>> Andy
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Hegel for Social Movements
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fbrill.com*2Fview*2Ftitle*2F54574__*3B!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBk8iLcReg*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412472638&sdata=hBx7qflf4m9p8uTE*2B4alLHqD4n1aMpxrwmV7dWRuyqc*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIZm3eJhg$>
>> Home Page
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.ethicalpolitics.org*2Fablunden*2Findex.htm__*3B!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBk7OSM06Y*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412472638&sdata=ZI48nZtfz6lMy2*2BE6nm84IFOiB2DeCOirmEhCw3o0qg*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIVQug3id$>
>>
>> On 15/01/2020 3:09 pm, David Kellogg wrote:
>>
>> But psychotechnics was really the Soviet version of human resource
>> management. The idea was to select particular "types" for particular jobs.
>> It wasn't really a Soviet idea--it started in Germany (and in fact, the
>> Nazis were very big on it; the selection ramp at Auschwitz was based on
>> it). In China, there was also quite a bit of emphasis on making sure that
>> people suited the professions chosen for them, as education was a very
>> scarce resource.
>>
>>
>>
>> Isaac Spielrein--Sabine's brother, who was a colleague of Vygotsky--was a
>> psychotechnician; his essay on the language of the Red Army soldier is
>> written with that perspective in mind. And it was at a psychotechnic
>> conference that Vygotsky was asked if there could be a pedology of adults,
>> to aid in psychotechnic selection.
>>
>>
>>
>> Vygotsky said no.
>>
>>
>> David Kellogg
>>
>> Sangmyung University
>>
>>
>>
>> New Article: 'Commentary: On the originality of Vygotsky's "Thought and
>> Word" i
>>
>> in *Mind Culture and Activity*
>>
>> *https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1711775
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.tandfonline.com*2Fdoi*2Ffull*2F10.1080*2F10749039.2020.1711775__*3B!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBktaxJh-A*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412482626&sdata=yllUDzZhK8*2BCHvi8HXvoxP457gXRNAa8VYC*2FPC4PQtc*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIWQuZxxv$>*
>>
>> Some free e-prints available at:
>>
>>
>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/SK2DR3TYBMJ42MFPYRFY/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1711775
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.tandfonline.com*2Feprint*2FSK2DR3TYBMJ42MFPYRFY*2Ffull*3Ftarget*3D10.1080*10749039.2020.1711775__*3BLw!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBkmu8ynwE*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412482626&sdata=6*2B8dfqrBCex1zj*2Fmqw0i5RKwp0LGBvcc1zZjt*2BjGEjk*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlKiUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIUbsFhIY$>
>>
>>
>>
>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works
>> Volume One: Foundations of Pedology"
>>
>>
>>
>>  https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.springer.com*2Fgp*2Fbook*2F9789811505270__*3B!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBkiawojtY*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412492624&sdata=PDdGgIgXqxWaVkzWvkE*2B24nBKC6nX6Vv*2Bq1mROYzdMk*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QISHX4tYT$>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 1:02 PM mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Might you be looking for “psychotechnics” Andy?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 7:35 PM David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Andy--
>>
>>
>>
>> That really doesn't sound like Vygotsky to me.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, he refers to art as the "social technique of emotion" (Psychology of
>> Art). Yes, he did experiments on reading "Gentle Breath" to see if Bunin's
>> short story had any affect on breathing rates. But as far as I know he had
>> nothing to do with Luria's work on lie detectors (in The Nature of Human
>> Conflict), and he was even rather skeptical of Luria's work on optical
>> illusions in "uneducated" peoples
>>
>>
>>
>> . Remember, this is the guy who denied that a general psychology could
>> ever cut itself off from practice and vice versa (History of the Crisis in
>> Psychology), who rejected the idea that thinking is speech with the sound
>> turned off (Thinking and Speech). Besides, who ever heard of a technology
>> opposed to an epistemology? What would that mean? A hand without a brain?
>>
>>
>>
>> Vygotsky sounds more like this: "Neither the hand nor the brain left to
>> itself can do much."  Francis Bacon, *Novum Organum* (1620), Book 1,
>> Aphorism 2.
>>
>>
>> David Kellogg
>>
>> Sangmyung University
>>
>>
>>
>> New Article: 'Commentary: On the originality of Vygotsky's "Thought and
>> Word" i
>>
>> in *Mind Culture and Activity*
>>
>> *https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1711775
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.tandfonline.com*2Fdoi*2Ffull*2F10.1080*2F10749039.2020.1711775__*3B!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBktaxJh-A*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412492624&sdata=BP3oUS62Il2ysAn5qg8wmdRgzXL88z*2FStKI*2Bh6VwUKw*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIW8z2T_v$>*
>>
>> Some free e-prints available at:
>>
>>
>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/SK2DR3TYBMJ42MFPYRFY/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1711775
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.tandfonline.com*2Feprint*2FSK2DR3TYBMJ42MFPYRFY*2Ffull*3Ftarget*3D10.1080*10749039.2020.1711775__*3BLw!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBkmu8ynwE*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412502616&sdata=sDCVNon8FCfDczqUlefwc6O6XRxMu7kgYtTX5KhfPSk*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlKiUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIUEJFvpx$>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 11:49 AM Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>>
>> There's somewhere where Vygotsky talks about psychology as a technology
>> as opposed to (for example) an epistemology. Can anyone point me to where
>> this observation is to be found. I can find it with my search engines. I
>> think Vygotsky and Luria's invention of the lie-detector has been mentioned
>> in this connection.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Hegel for Social Movements
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fbrill.com*2Fview*2Ftitle*2F54574__*3B!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBk8iLcReg*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412502616&sdata=q5ZRtmU7n76mwg2owaHdn8LcNDmLEHxREaF04n263AQ*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QITY6oecw$>
>> Home Page
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fwww.ethicalpolitics.org*2Fablunden*2Findex.htm__*3B!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBk7OSM06Y*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412512609&sdata=r3AyHyk8zmlFhrR7IW5kr51MZsY8ohkyUWlVW9jyKpM*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIaQ-1kB-$>
>>
>> --
>>
>>  fiction is but a form of symbolic action, a mere game of “as if”,
>> therein lies its true   function and its potential for effecting change -
>> R. Ellison
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>
>> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other
>> members of LCHC, visit
>>
>> lchc.ucsd.edu
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2Flchc.ucsd.edu__*3B!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBkAj8DVL0*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412512609&sdata=gpiCZeiosXnQSx4T2Qe3TjykJII53mXoOxw290oXsMA*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIX0clSVO$>.
>> For a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit
>> lchcautobio.ucsd.edu
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2Flchcautobio.ucsd.edu__*3B!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBkRAeC65Q*24&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412522609&sdata=t2P5tYIsk3GCrG8v5UtA9qX28ejZW*2BnuLzQfRupbPL8*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIfoqvbhu$>
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>  fiction is but a form of symbolic action, a mere game of “as if”,
>> therein lies its true   function and its potential for effecting change -
>> R. Ellison
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>
>> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other
>> members of LCHC, visit
>>
>> lchc.ucsd.edu
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http*3A*2F*2Flchc.ucsd.edu&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412522609&sdata=7SppP1Yvcb2dKzCKoZVcsxSc317*2FVcl6Kpfghe0O2Hg*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIbLpkCwJ$>.
>> For a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit
>> lchcautobio.ucsd.edu
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http*3A*2F*2Flchcautobio.ucsd.edu&data=02*7C01*7C*7C65f40880e53e4c1412c508d799e58718*7C87879f2e73044bf2baf263e7f83f3c34*7C0*7C0*7C637147083412532604&sdata=F8KGSR10*2BDM*2BkgdBt*2FCc9Nobo9vvGTCOGRRz6g9P*2FeY*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!KGKeukY!mLhQUKQjrFOMsctcba8YuyUuqdKRguYi_RFCB738kunrmy7tUs2HLGZBW6feWd1QIReAJOUT$>
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Peter Feigenbaum, Ph.D.
> Director,
> Office of Institutional Research
> <https://www.fordham.edu/info/24303/institutional_research>
> Fordham University
> Thebaud Hall-202
> Bronx, NY 10458
>
> Phone: (718) 817-2243
> Fax: (718) 817-3817
> email: pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu
>
>
> --
 fiction is but a form of symbolic action, a mere game of “as if”, therein
lies its true   function and its potential for effecting change - R. Ellison
---------------------------------------------------
For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members
of LCHC, visit
lchc.ucsd.edu.  For a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit
lchcautobio.ucsd.edu.
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