[Xmca-l] Re: useful psychology?

Wed Jan 15 09:56:12 PST 2020

In my view, Munsterberg was no fool and was deeply immersed in the problem
of the "two psychologies" that LSV sought to supercede. For a quick take on
"psychotechnics" in work, check his book out on google and search the term.
For example,

Psychotechnics is really a technical science related to a causal
[experimental-mc] psychology as engineering is related to physics.
Psychotechnics necessarily refers to the future while the psychohistorical
sciences refer to the past. (Munsterg, 1915, p.354)

It would be interesting to stage a discussion bertween Munsterberg and
LSV.  Which one would have more to say for his accomplishments view from,
say, 2020?

And if someone has a pdf of the book, please sing out!
mike

On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 8:25 AM Glassman, Michael <glassman.13@osu.edu>
wrote:

> I don’t know, I read it that he was criticizing Munsterberg with his
> discussion of psychotechnics, which I guess was the title of Munsterberg’s
> last book. To meet it reads like Vygotsky was thinking Munsterberg was
> falling into a dangerous materialist trap. Maybe that’s what you are saying
> Andy.
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> *On
> Behalf Of *Andy Blunden
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 15, 2020 2:39 AM
> *To:* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: useful psychology?
>
>
>
> This is what I was looking for:
>
> https://www.marxists.org/archive/vygotsky/works/crisis/psycri12.htm#p1207
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.marxists.org/archive/vygotsky/works/crisis/psycri12.htm*p1207__;Iw!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBkzm3Ep0s$>
>
> It was the exclusion of "psychotechnics" from the fundamental problems of
> psychology which he objected to. On the contrary, the philosophy of
> practice provided all the solutions to these problems. "The goal of such
> a psychology is not Shakespeare in concepts, as it was for Dilthey, but *in
> one word – psychotechnics*, i.e., a scientific theory which would lead to
> the subordination and mastery of the mind, to the artificial control of
> behaviour."
>
> Thanks all.
> Andy
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *Andy Blunden*
> Hegel for Social Movements
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBk8iLcReg$>
> Home Page
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBk7OSM06Y$>
>
> On 15/01/2020 3:09 pm, David Kellogg wrote:
>
> But psychotechnics was really the Soviet version of human resource
> management. The idea was to select particular "types" for particular jobs.
> It wasn't really a Soviet idea--it started in Germany (and in fact, the
> Nazis were very big on it; the selection ramp at Auschwitz was based on
> it). In China, there was also quite a bit of emphasis on making sure that
> people suited the professions chosen for them, as education was a very
> scarce resource.
>
>
>
> Isaac Spielrein--Sabine's brother, who was a colleague of Vygotsky--was a
> psychotechnician; his essay on the language of the Red Army soldier is
> written with that perspective in mind. And it was at a psychotechnic
> conference that Vygotsky was asked if there could be a pedology of adults,
> to aid in psychotechnic selection.
>
>
>
> Vygotsky said no.
>
>
> David Kellogg
>
> Sangmyung University
>
>
>
> New Article: 'Commentary: On the originality of Vygotsky's "Thought and
> Word" i
>
> in *Mind Culture and Activity*
>
> *https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1711775
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1711775__;!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBktaxJh-A$>*
>
> Some free e-prints available at:
>
>
> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/SK2DR3TYBMJ42MFPYRFY/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1711775
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.tandfonline.com/eprint/SK2DR3TYBMJ42MFPYRFY/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1711775__;Lw!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBkmu8ynwE$>
>
>
>
> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: "L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works
> Volume One: Foundations of Pedology"
>
>
>
>  https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBkiawojtY$>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 1:02 PM mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>
> Might you be looking for “psychotechnics” Andy?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 7:35 PM David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Andy--
>
>
>
> That really doesn't sound like Vygotsky to me.
>
>
>
> Yes, he refers to art as the "social technique of emotion" (Psychology of
> Art). Yes, he did experiments on reading "Gentle Breath" to see if Bunin's
> short story had any affect on breathing rates. But as far as I know he had
> nothing to do with Luria's work on lie detectors (in The Nature of Human
> Conflict), and he was even rather skeptical of Luria's work on optical
> illusions in "uneducated" peoples
>
>
>
> . Remember, this is the guy who denied that a general psychology could
> ever cut itself off from practice and vice versa (History of the Crisis in
> Psychology), who rejected the idea that thinking is speech with the sound
> turned off (Thinking and Speech). Besides, who ever heard of a technology
> opposed to an epistemology? What would that mean? A hand without a brain?
>
>
>
> Vygotsky sounds more like this: "Neither the hand nor the brain left to
> itself can do much."  Francis Bacon, *Novum Organum* (1620), Book 1,
> Aphorism 2.
>
>
> David Kellogg
>
> Sangmyung University
>
>
>
> New Article: 'Commentary: On the originality of Vygotsky's "Thought and
> Word" i
>
> in *Mind Culture and Activity*
>
> *https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1711775
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10749039.2020.1711775__;!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBktaxJh-A$>*
>
> Some free e-prints available at:
>
>
> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/SK2DR3TYBMJ42MFPYRFY/full?target=10.1080/10749039.2020.1711775
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.tandfonline.com/eprint/SK2DR3TYBMJ42MFPYRFY/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1711775__;Lw!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBkmu8ynwE$>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 11:49 AM Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>
> There's somewhere where Vygotsky talks about psychology as a technology as
> opposed to (for example) an epistemology. Can anyone point me to where this
> observation is to be found. I can find it with my search engines. I think
> Vygotsky and Luria's invention of the lie-detector has been mentioned in
> this connection.
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------
>
> *Andy Blunden*
> Hegel for Social Movements
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBk8iLcReg$>
> Home Page
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBk7OSM06Y$>
>
> --
>
>  fiction is but a form of symbolic action, a mere game of “as if”, therein
> lies its true   function and its potential for effecting change - R. Ellison
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other
> members of LCHC, visit
>
> lchc.ucsd.edu
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/lchc.ucsd.edu__;!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBkAj8DVL0$>.
> For a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit
> lchcautobio.ucsd.edu
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/lchcautobio.ucsd.edu__;!!KGKeukY!kwgYnHOPX75Ybl3Dlo9PqMByhQGk_i4UVIzFuijyPSYMkYPw1dl1syiX0IBkRAeC65Q$>
> .
>
>
>
>
>
>

-- 
 fiction is but a form of symbolic action, a mere game of “as if”, therein
lies its true   function and its potential for effecting change - R. Ellison
---------------------------------------------------
For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other members
of LCHC, visit
lchc.ucsd.edu.  For a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit
lchcautobio.ucsd.edu.
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