[Xmca-l] Re: Just Published: L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works Vol. 1

Sun Jan 5 04:35:15 PST 2020

Dear David (I hadn't made the connection with the cereal until now).

I couldn't agree more. And you just reminded me of social ZPD, so yes,
let's keep working and see where it goes.

And for anyone that got by my (now I see as unnecessary) harsh words, I am
really sorry. My apologies.

I as playing games yesterday and a genetics biologist friend of mine was
complaining of very similar stuff. Them my brother in law, a pharmacist,
said this: what you guys are discussing are problems in the academia
bubble, I need to explain people why you should follow the doctor
instructions for engineers.

Wagner

On Sat, Jan 4, 2020, 19:05 David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com> wrote:

> DEAR Wagner!
>
> No offense taken, of course! You and I are old CHAT chums, and a bit of
> rumpus is part of the skinship. (The name is "David", by the
> way..."Kellogg" is a well known breakfast cereal manufacturer whose
> biological relationship to me is far too distant to do me any good....)
>
> Actually, I think I probably share all of your concerns, including the
> price of commuting to ISCAR, climate change, and your worries over the
> death of Brazilian academia. I wouldn't exactly describe Korean academia as
> "dead", but our Vygotsky group is more or less dead to them, and we mostly
> distribute our work through the teachers' union. In fact, one reason why I
> wanted to publish Vygotsky in English is that the professoriat here will
> insist on reading him in English, even though our Korean translations are
> now done from Russian.
>
> Copyright is one barrier, and it's real. In response to Anne-Nelly's query
> (because I know Andy is under some stress these days), you might want to
> look at this:
>
>
> https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140424/17582827024/radical-publisher-claims-copyright-free-collection-marx-engels-works-orders-them-taken-down.shtml
>
> But there are other barriers that are equally serious or even more so:
> translations are sometimes more wall than bridge. So for example on p. 50
> of Vol 5 in the English Collected Works, we learn  that Vygotsky's data
> comes from Pashkovskaya, and that Pashkovsakya's data comes, in part, from
> the SCY, the schools for "Christian" youth, supposedly "ShKM" in Russian.
> But the Russian word for Christian doesn't begin with "K" or "C"--it begins
> with "X". Even the Russian Collected Works gets this right: PEASANT schools
> are meant. The English, on p. 57, says this: "From our point of view,
> logical thinking is not composed of concepts so much as of separate
> elements". The Russian says exactly the opposite.
>
> Yes, you are right--the review system has also become a wall and not a
> bridge. But I think some of this is our own doing, you know. The other day
> I got a review that said, basically, I don't understand this paper at all,
> but I think it should be published and the readership should be given a
> chance to sort out what this guy is really trying to say. Even the first
> part of that review--the admission that the reviewer is over his or her
> head--is rare enough, let alone the admirable humility of the second part.
> More readership--less leadership!
>
> I think the longest, widest, worst wall of all--but the one most
> immediately in our power to get over--is still just drive-by citation:
> citing Vygotsky without actually reading him. I remember having my work
> rejected by "Vygotskyans" at the Canadian Modern Language Review who
> informed me that Vygotsky had clearly written that there could never be any
> such thing as a "group" or "collective" ZPD. Reviewers still complain when
> I point out that a ZPD is always measured in years, but these years are not
> calendar years, that Vygotsky was intimately associated with sex education
> (gay marriage was more or less legal in the USSR until 1931), that LSV
> could and did write about the Russian famine, and that he also wrote
> extensively on the effect of class consciousness on the adolescent. All of
> this can be found in the pedological works, and most of it in the
> selections already published in the Collected Works, even if it is well
> disguised by the editors and translators.
>
> Of course,  MCA is doing more than its share ito overcome all these
> barriers! And yes, a beautiful special issue on the pedology is on the way
> in the new year. Francophone readers who cannot wait, though, should read
> the remarkable translation and editorial material of  Irina
> Leopoldoff-Martin and Bernard Scheuwly which will be its basis:
>
>
> https://www.amazon.com/science-d%C3%A9veloppement-lenfant-p%C3%A9dologiques-Exploration/dp/303433348X
>
> And Springer has allowed us to make available selected passages
> in Engish free online in connection with the upcoming special issue!
>
> David Kellogg
> Sangmyung University
>
> New article with Fang Li:
> "How do novels hang together? Characterization as registerial
> meta-stability"
> Text & Talk
>
>
> https://www.degruyter.com/view/j/text.ahead-of-print/text-2019-2051/text-2019-2051.xml
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 4:39 AM PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly <
> Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch> wrote:
>
>> Hi Michael,
>> Thank you very much for these most interesting comments and for this
>> information.
>> I can see the risk of balkanisation... I would like to hope that it will
>> be overcome in some way.
>> Yes, all these publications, including pedology , are precious steps
>> ahead.
>> I am looking forward to the special issue prepared with the French. Nice
>> event.
>> Best greetings,
>> Anne-Nelly
>>
>>
>> Le 4 janv. 2020 à 20:02, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> a écrit :
>>
>> 
>> Hi Ann Nelly et al  --
>>
>> We have never been hassled on lchc-related sites, including xmca. We have
>> declared several times
>> and in several places that xmca is an EDUCATIONAL discussion group and
>> that papers/chapters posted
>> there are for educational use. Either that has protected us or it is the
>> extreme esoteric and trivial nature of the chat-ing
>> that has spared us.
>>
>> I am not sure why Pedology would be subject to difficulties.  The USSR
>> did not join the copyright agreement until
>> 1973 .. a fact that made possible, financially, the publications of the
>> 1920's and later, critical, decades of Soviet
>> cultural-historical work.
>>
>> Note how much is allowed on Research Gate and Academia.
>> And note that there is an excellent e-book of many books, including
>> Cultural Psych book, floating around the internet.
>> I got mine free!
>>
>> Still very porous, but the fractionation of the internet will probably
>> re-balkanize communication and bring it under
>> the kind of direct local control exercised by the Chinese, now the
>> Russian, and several other country.
>>
>> Its a big deal to me that The Pedology has been published. It makes sense
>> of the way that Vygotsky's students
>> distributed various parts of it around many publications in journals and
>> book chapters. And hence influenced the way
>> that these works were appropriated abroad. In the fullness of time there
>> will be a special issue of MCA devoted to French colleagues have
>> interpreted this important work.
>>
>> Back to the future again again!
>> mike
>>
>> mike
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2020 at 8:00 AM PERRET-CLERMONT Anne-Nelly <
>> Anne-Nelly.Perret-Clermont@unine.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear David, Dear Andy,
>>> Andy's publications in open access are so useful. Without disclosing
>>> private details nor entering into the specifics of precise cases, could you
>>> help by making us aware of the unforeseen risks of making stuff free on
>>> the internet ? ( I ask the question because I read below: "Somebody is
>>> going to sue you eventually (apply to Andy for details on this)").
>>> Thanks
>>> Anne-Nelly Perret-Clermont
>>> University of Neuchâtel
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 3 janv. 2020 à 23:12, David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com> a écrit :
>>>
>>> 
>>> Wagner--
>>>
>>> Nikolai and I did make all the material which we
>>> ourselves wrote available for free. All you have to do is click the free
>>> previews and the front and endmatter,and you'll get a free pdf. The free
>>> previews will tell you, in summary form, what the actual lecture says, and
>>> you can decide whether it's worth the money to be able to cite chapter and
>>> verse.
>>>
>>> But I can think of a lot of good reasons for publishing with Springer.
>>>
>>> a) Springer have been around a while--they were founded when Marx was
>>> just getting started in journalism and Vygotsky cites a lot of their
>>> Gestalist books--hopefully they will last longer than, say, the Soviet
>>> publishing house Vygotsky used did. (The Russian university press that
>>> published the first version of the lectures back in 2001 is now bankrupt
>>> and has disappeared without a trace!)
>>> b) Springer are very much part of the academic market here in East Asia
>>> (they aren't in Singapore for the cheap labour!)
>>> c) Springer have an aggressive line in e-books, which are the main mode
>>> for literacy on my commute to work these days. (Even in illiterate England,
>>> Paul McCartney says he can ride the London tube now because everybody is
>>> too busy looking up his picture on Google images to notice the original
>>> sitting next to them).
>>> d) Yelena Kravtsova is on the editorial board of the cultural-historical
>>> research series, (She has some claim to the rights to Vygotsky's work,
>>> according to the lawyers.)
>>> e) Springer stocks libraries.
>>>
>>> I can also think of three good reasons for not making stuff free on the
>>> internet.
>>>
>>> a) Somebody is going to sue you eventually (apply to Andy for details on
>>> this).
>>> b) It's too confusing for readers to sort out the chaff from the grain
>>> these days.
>>> c) It's gonna happen anyway.
>>>
>>> Actually, the main reason we chose Springer was the same reason that one
>>> chooses a wife, husband, or more temporary partner even though they too
>>> might just be hungry.
>>>
>>> Everybody out there was taking no risks and saying no. Springer
>>> was willing to take a chance and say yes.
>>>
>>> David Kellogg
>>> Sangmyung University
>>>
>>> New article with Fang Li:
>>> "How do novels hang together? Characterization as registerial
>>> meta-stability"
>>> Text & Talk
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.degruyter.com/view/j/text.ahead-of-print/text-2019-2051/text-2019-2051.xml
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 9:04 PM Wagner Luiz Schmit <
>>> wagner.schmit@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> We have this in Portuguese, and cheap. Very very interesting material
>>>> presenting another unit of analysis.
>>>>
>>>> Seriously, why we as Marxists insists on publishing with money hunger
>>>> corporations, for-profit publishers and so on?
>>>>
>>>> Wagner
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 8:11 AM David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is a pretty slim volume, and it's expensive. But if you click on
>>>>> the free preview and the chapter summaries, you can get a pretty good idea
>>>>> of what you (or your library) will be paying for.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm afraid that even the ebook is expensive:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007%2F978-981-15-0528-7
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But this is free!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/bfm%3A978-981-15-0528-7%2F1.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> and so is this:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/bbm%3A978-981-15-0528-7%2F1.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> David Kellogg
>>>>> Sangmyung University
>>>>>
>>>>> New article with Fang Li:
>>>>> "How do novels hang together? Characterization as registerial
>>>>> meta-stability"
>>>>> Text & Talk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.degruyter.com/view/j/text.ahead-of-print/text-2019-2051/text-2019-2051.xml
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>> --
>>  fiction is but a form of symbolic action, a mere game of “as if”,
>> therein lies its true   function and its potential for effecting change -
>> R. Ellison
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> For archival resources relevant to the research of myself and other
>> members of LCHC, visit
>> lchc.ucsd.edu.  For a narrative history of the research of LCHC, visit
>> lchcautobio.ucsd.edu.
>>
>>
>>
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